3530 replies to this topic

[MrHahn]

Talking about the 'joker' engine rule. Why cant Hamilton use it at Brazil - I see it kind of stupid given the fact that he will use the same spec engine next year. I know it would be a bit of a stretch to say you are using the same engine at Brazil in 08 as you will in Australia 09, but then people are onto their first race engines (both the Ferrari's?). It seems like a pretty dumb rule and a major oversight by Mclaren - considering Heikki's mini ka-boom a couple of races ago

[chiuey]

Talking about the 'joker' engine rule. Why cant Hamilton use it at Brazil - I see it kind of stupid given the fact that he will use the same spec engine next year. I know it would be a bit of a stretch to say you are using the same engine at Brazil in 08 as you will in Australia 09, but then people are onto their first race engines (both the Ferrari's?). It seems like a pretty dumb rule and a major oversight by Mclaren - considering Heikki's mini ka-boom a couple of races ago

I agree, even though I want Hamilton to loose.

You should be able to choose when you want to use the joker engine no matter what point int he season it is.

[_R_]

the thing about Massa, and trust me, i'm not exactly a huge supporter of the guy, but... look where he is right now. He has more points thatn Kimi the 2007 world champ and he's going head to head with the golden boy Hamilton in the final race for the WDC....

the guy isn't exactly a master of the driving, but he is doing extremely well this season considering all the crap people give him... if anything, he's going to be the runner up this year if he doesn't win the title...

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

I agree, even though I want Hamilton to loose.

You should be able to choose when you want to use the joker engine no matter what point int he season it is.

the reason for the 'joker' rule not applicable on the last race is because then drivers will basically run an engine in a 1-race sprint mapping as opposed to the reliability '2-race' cycle, negating the 'cost savings' by having this stupid 2-race cycle rule in the first place. you can still use the joker at the 2nd to last race because then your engine has to last the final 2 rounds of the championship.

[Redliner]

the reason for the 'joker' rule not applicable on the last race is because then drivers will basically run an engine in a 1-race sprint mapping as opposed to the reliability '2-race' cycle, negating the 'cost savings' by having this stupid 2-race cycle rule in the first place. you can still use the joker at the 2nd to last race because then your engine has to last the final 2 rounds of the championship.

Does it have to destroy itself to change to a joker engine? Or can you switch out the unit if you think it's possibly bad? Didn't Massa have an engine change earlier this year w/o penalty?

Wouldn't that mean that anyone could have a free engine a year?

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

Does it have to destroy itself to change to a joker engine? Or can you switch out the unit if you think it's possibly bad? Didn't Massa have an engine change earlier this year w/o penalty?

Wouldn't that mean that anyone could have a free engine a year?

no you can change from a perfectly good powerplant to another for the joker change.. they did that for massa as a precautionary change..

basically anyone is allowed to alter their engine cycle once with the joker change, but they don't want the joker rule to be used to eliminate the purpose of having engine cycles.

[MrHahn]

the reason for the 'joker' rule not applicable on the last race is because then drivers will basically run an engine in a 1-race sprint mapping as opposed to the reliability '2-race' cycle, negating the 'cost savings' by having this stupid 2-race cycle rule in the first place. you can still use the joker at the 2nd to last race because then your engine has to last the final 2 rounds of the championship.

That's understandable. Seems dumb that Mclaren didnt use their Joker earlier so that they could come to Brazil with a fresh engine. Maybe they thought the championship wouldnt get this close?

[vietlol]

or maybe they had 100% reliability with lewis

[chiuey]

the reason for the 'joker' rule not applicable on the last race is because then drivers will basically run an engine in a 1-race sprint mapping as opposed to the reliability '2-race' cycle, negating the 'cost savings' by having this stupid 2-race cycle rule in the first place. you can still use the joker at the 2nd to last race because then your engine has to last the final 2 rounds of the championship.

yeah but there will be others who's cycle works out that they start their last race on a fresh engine anyways, so regardless of the rules, someone will benefit from the stupid rule. So I don't see why anyone should have to forfeit the right to a joker engine change, just because they had a more reliable car.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

FIA pushes on with standard engine plan

By Jonathan Noble Monday, October 27th 2008, 13:00 GMT

The FIA is pressing ahead with its plans for a standard engine in Formula One, after revealing on Monday that several parties have expressed an interest in applying for the tender.

In a bid to make much-needed cost cuts in F1, motor racing's governing body announced over the Chinese Grand Prix weekend that it wanted to introduce a standard engine in F1 from 2010 to 2012.

Such a move could prompt manufacturers to walk away from the sport, although F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone did question why they should do so when the move to a standard engine would save the car makers money.

Although the subject of a standard engine had appeared to move off the radar following last week's crunch meeting between FIA president Max Mosley and the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) to discuss costs cuts, a statement issued on Monday suggested the plans are still being pushed ahead at full speed.

The statement on Monday said that 'interested parties' had asked for clarifications from the FIA about several issues relating to the tender. These included the use of technologies in the engines, freight costs and the situation regarding engine changes.

The FIA also made it clear that it would ensure that manufacturers that chose to make their own standard engine would not be allowed to gain any significant performance benefit from doing so.

In response to the question about compatibility issues caused by teams sourcing engine parts themselves, the FIA said: "The FIA intends to ensure that all engines including those supplied by the tenderer are within 1% (engine power of other units) and that they remain within 1% throughout the engine's life. This being the case, it becomes irrelevant that a team which chooses to build the engine itself might do expensive work on the engine."

The FIA has also amended the deadlines for companies to submit their tender applications for both a standard engine and standard power transmission systems.

The November 7 deadline for submitting either just an engine supply deal or an engine and transmission deal together remains as originally set out.

However, should the FIA decide to award separate contracts for engine and transmission, then the tender for transmission only will be opened up once the power unit deal has been finalized. This tender process will last for a minimum of three weeks.

It is not clear which companies have expressed an interest in applying for the tender contract, but senior sources within FOTA claim an agreement is in place for none of the manufacturers currently involved in F1 to apply for the deal.

The FOTA source told autosport.com: "None of the FOTA members will apply. This has been confirmed by all the members."

[Redliner]

F1. The most expensive spec series in the world...

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

F1. The most expensive spec series in the world...

heres the thing though.. the members of FOTA have agreed not to tender an engine proposal to the FIA on this matter. so without engines from Honda, Ferrari, Mercedes, Toyota, Renault/Nissan or BMW that really does limit the number of engine manufacturers left in the industry that could put up a bid with enough resources to back it.

it'd have to be someone like Cosworth (Ford), Chevrolet (GM), Mazda, Panoz/Menard or someone from Porsche-VWAG (Audi most likely)..

i would think none of the FOTA manufacturers except RBR/STR, Williams and FI would agree to using an engine badged from one of the forementioned companies.. not that they were willing to use each others' engines anyways

in for GP1 in '10

[kngrsll]

the return of cosworth??

[_R_]

someone from Porsche-VWAG (Audi most likely)..

of the top of my head, I believe Porsche supplied McLaren with engines sometime in the 80's...

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

of the top of my head, I believe Porsche supplied McLaren with engines sometime in the 80's...

TAG-Porsche, yup. but now mercedes owns a good chunk of the Mercedes-McLaren F1 team i hardly think they'd allow for that sort of collaboration..

that and a Ferrari would never be caught with a Porsche engine..

[kngrsll]

manufactures can still build a chassis??

[chiuey]

It F1 really goes towards standardized engines, this sport might as well be dead to me....

[kngrsll]

It F1 really goes towards standardized engines, this sport might as well be dead to me....

i dont understand that... i mean, i dont like it myself, but i still love racing. and i feel that F1 will still be the top tier. who knows, maybe the racing will improve, and it will become more dependent on the drivers? alot of the things we as fans have asked for require equalization of the cars to elevate the importance of the driver. so if anything, we are bringing it on ourselves...

what do you guys thinks?

[F1]

what do you guys thinks?

It takes away from the tradition of F1, but it has, and always will be, about the drivers. As long as they continue to take steps of putting the cars back into the hands of the talent of the drivers, I don't really care what happens with engines. They've been built to the max anyway. Now if it ever gets to the point of standardized cars, I will check out.

[Redliner]

It takes away from the tradition of F1, but it has, and always will be, about the drivers. As long as they continue to take steps of putting the cars back into the hands of the talent of the drivers, I don't really care what happens with engines. They've been built to the max anyway. Now if it ever gets to the point of standardized cars, I will check out.

It's about maximizing both though...and I don't want to make racing so easy where it becomes a NASCAR pass-fest.

I want the maximum technology coming thru from creative engineers paired with the best drivers in the world going flat out. With out that competition on both fronts, it becomes lesser in my mind. It's no different to watching any other formula series at that point...

I still think the best way to do this is to open the technology and impose a budget cap. I don't know how hard that would be (some here say it would be damn near impossible) but open up all the technology caps w/ a budget cap and I'd love to see some creative engines running against each other, where they have to balance reliability, speed, aerodynamics under one bill...

[kngrsll]

i see where you guys are coming from... i really do find the technology interesting, especially to read about during the offseason. unfortunately, its gotten out of hand to where the car you drive matters more than who drives is (massa? ). i just dont know how they could limit costs... a budget cap would be cool, but impossible to implement, but to me, that makes the most sense. but still, you could end up with a dominate team with skewed racing.

[Redliner]

i see where you guys are coming from... i really do find the technology interesting, especially to read about during the offseason. unfortunately, its gotten out of hand to where the car you drive matters more than who drives is (massa? ). i just dont know how they could limit costs... a budget cap would be cool, but impossible to implement, but to me, that makes the most sense. but still, you could end up with a dominate team with skewed racing.

Does it really though? Good drivers are still good and bad drivers are still bad. Heikki, Heidfeld, Trulli (Skyliner just blew his top ) and Piquet still suck.

And good drivers are still delievering the goods..Alonso, Kubica, Vettel......Lewis . I mean, compare them to their team-mates. And I'd argue that Massa is fast, just a little prone to mistakes. He has proven it this season me thinks...He's not fast like MS or Alonso, but he's done well enough to be at the end, only 7points behind Lewis. Not bad for the lil' Brazillian

PS: jk on Trulli

[F1]

Well, looks like standard engines are out the window.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/71786

[Redliner]

All hail the newly, soon to be created GP1!

[HighTachPres]

Well, looks like standard engines are out the window.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/71786

On a day when the FIA confirmed it was still pushing on with its plans to introduce standard engines in F1, Ferrari became the second team to publicly threaten to withdraw from the sport if the concept goes ahead.

fuck ya ferrari!!!!!