909 replies to this topic

[Nacho]

"Mercedes GP would like to emphasise that we fully support the inclusion of past drivers on the stewards' panel and are completely satisfied that the Monaco Grand Prix stewards acted professionally, impartially and properly in this matter.

AKA: Stop bitching about Damon Hill, fuck.

[Redliner]

AKA: Stop bitching about Damon Hill, fuck.

[Shi]

Quick chop just to see what a F1 car w/ 18s would look like if they decide to go that route in the future...

Looks good

Cars should be easier to set up too, with less of a spring effect from the tire walls

[Nacho]

Looks good

Cars should be easier to set up too, with less of a spring effect from the tire walls

I'd think harder to set up, as all the suspension development until now was using the sidewall as a constant spring.

[Shi]

I'd think harder to set up, as all the suspension development until now was using the sidewall as a constant spring.

It's a spring for which the damping rate can not be chosen though. With a shorter stiffer sidewall it will be much easier to achieve the spring rate and damping rate you want.

Although, I'm sure it will take them a while to transition from 13" to 18".

[Redliner]

Me and Kero had a discussion on which we thought would ultimately be quicker, 13s or 18s?

I think overall, 18s will be quicker. More responsive cars, easier to setup. 18s would be a touch heavier though...

The brakes are going to look like Honda Riceboy Specials though unless they move to bigger brakes.

[Nacho]

Me and Kero had a discussion on which we thought would ultimately be quicker, 13s or 18s?

I think overall, 18s will be quicker. More responsive cars, easier to setup. 18s would be a touch heavier though...

The brakes are going to look like Honda Riceboy Specials though unless they move to bigger brakes.

I think that 18"s would be significantly heavier, esp in terms of where the weight is in relation to the axle's point of rotation.

Generally, smaller wheels are faster. And since the teams would prefer to not go to 18" wheels (from what I've read), i'd say that helps that theory.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

I think that 18"s would be significantly heavier, esp in terms of where the weight is in relation to the axle's point of rotation.

Generally, smaller wheels are faster. And since the teams would prefer to not go to 18" wheels (from what I've read), i'd say that helps that theory.

This was my thought too, and the term you were looking for is the "Rotational Moment of Inertia". I think it would be a tradeoff between wheel weight vs. tire weight (stronger sidewall required to minimize flex w/ 13s) so the difference wouldn't be that significant IMO.

Ultimately I think the teams would claw back any deficit from going to 18s, though it would take a season or two to do so, hence why they want at least some transitional period where they can design for the 18s before putting them on the cars in 2011.

[Nacho]

This was my thought too, and the term you were looking for is the "Rotational Moment of Inertia". I think it would be a tradeoff between wheel weight vs. tire weight (stronger sidewall required to minimize flex w/ 13s) so the difference wouldn't be that significant IMO.

Ultimately I think the teams would claw back any deficit from going to 18s, though it would take a season or two to do so, hence why they want at least some transitional period where they can design for the 18s before putting them on the cars in 2011.

Generally the weights of tires don't vary as much as you might think as the sidewall gets shorter. Something like Hoosier's R6 in a 225/50/15 actually weighs only one pound more than their 225/40/17 (same overall diameter and tread block width). A 17" wheel is generally going to weigh more than one pound more than the 15" version, and that's before you even get to the point of talking about where the majority of the weight is located on the wheel/tire package, as now your wheel barrel and almost all of the tire weight are 2" further out.

The way F1 tires are constructed isn't like a road car anyway, so our experience doesn't matter all that much.

[MrHahn]

I think that 18"s would be significantly heavier, esp in terms of where the weight is in relation to the axle's point of rotation.

Generally, smaller wheels are faster. And since the teams would prefer to not go to 18" wheels (from what I've read), i'd say that helps that theory.

Extra unsprung weight would be a killer on an F1 car. Not to mention the high kerbs that they're putting in some tracks and the possibility of damaging a wheel.

[Redliner]

Extra unsprung weight would be a killer on an F1 car. Not to mention the high kerbs that they're putting in some tracks and the possibility of damaging a wheel.

Touche. Ultimately, it does look like 18s are a bad idea in terms of speed...but I'll admit, i'm getting used to Kero's chop I do hope they stick with 13"s though.

[DrDickAction]

Yay at USGP, boo at it being a Tilke design.

Grandprix.com
MAY 20, 2010
US Grand Prix to rural New York?

A letter has gone out to members of New York's Monticello Motor Club, an exclusive driving resort race track ninety miles from Manhattan, informing them of progress in talks to bring the US Grand Prix to the facility for 10 years, starting in 2012.

Ari Straus, President of MMC, has told grandprix.com exclusively: "MMC Chairman Bill McMichael and I are honored that Formula One World Championship is considering Monticello Motor Club as a venue for the United States Grand Prix, and we are taking this opportunity with all the seriousness it requires. Hermann Tilke has surveyed the facility and laid out what modifications we need to implement, from the standpoint of the circuit, as well as access and local infrastructure."

The circuit was opened in 2008 in the lower Catskill mountains, as a resort for driving enthusiasts, and boasts a membership roster that includes NASCAR Champion Jeff Gordon and entertainer Jerry Seinfeld. It has been used exclusively for non-commercial purposes until now, but is poised to make the changes necessary to accept an event of the level of Formula One. It is currently the nearest major road course racing circuit to New York City.

Straus: "We are in a position to move forward for many reasons, notably our proximity to the New York City metropolitan area, and the flexibility we have in terms of making changes to the track itself and its access for fans. Our members are a very forward thinking group of individuals who are a great asset themselves to this project, on different many levels."

Mr. Straus further asserts that realistic funding is in place to warrant moving forward and that a letter of intent has been signed by Formula One management, that allows the next steps to be to be taken.

Mr. Straus and Mr. McMichael have been engaged in talks with F1 Boss Bernie Ecclestone for the past few months, and while admitedly far from a done deal, signs point towards this being a serious project.

I honestly think I would have preferred a street race.

http://www.grandprix...ns/ns22280.html

[Redliner]

It's stupid.

Tilke has a monopoly on F1 tracks...I sure wish I knew why.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

For fuck sake... Pick IMS and be done with it already

[DrDickAction]

For fuck sake... Pick IMS and be done with it already

seriously

Having this in rural NY does nothing for me...probably cheaper for me to go to Montreal just because of the easy public transit/not having to rent a car.

I could see them not using Indy if they were still pushing for a glamorous race...streets of NY, Vegas, LA type thing...but if it's just gonna be a random track, why? What does this track provide that Indy couldn't?

[Nacho]

I could see them not using Indy if they were still pushing for a glamorous race...streets of NY, Vegas, LA type thing...but if it's just gonna be a random track, why? What does this track provide that Indy couldn't?

Control for Bernie and Co since this would essentially be the only time it's used for a big event.

[vietlol]

You'd think that whoever wants to run this would at least watch F1 and pay attention to all the crap Tilke gets. Silverstone is doing it right, whether it works we will see.

I think Tilke should only be allowed to design the grand stands and facilities but countries that want to host a race will really have to put their foot down on this one.

[cASe SenSiTive]

For fuck sake... Pick IMS and be done with it already

Are there even any major hotels in that part of NY? Other entertainment? Restaurants?

Sounds like a big pile of fail and AIDS to me.

[AErrorist]

They should run at Watkin's Glen, or Infineon, and share the race weekend with NASCAR, that way both of those greedy bastards (FOM and NASCAR) could get their money.

[shallow777]

I have been on the Monticello track and it is really nice the way it is now. But it is a new facility and was designed as a country club track. They haven't even finished construction of the permanent structures other than the track. It was built on an old airstrip (kind of like Silverstone) and it has a really long back straight that used to be the runway. A little bit of elevation change which is nice and a few really tight corners which I am sure they would take out for formula 1.

It is in a really beautiful setting but there would have to be a ton of changes to make it able to handle the amount of people and equipment present for an F1 race. The area does have hotels and stuff and they also have a horse racing track and slot machine casino and stuff pretty close. Actually the original Woodstock took place a few miles from there too. Traffic in and out would be a nightmare though.

I think this is another one that won't go through just like the liberty state park thing. I think Bernie is just trying to make it look like he is trying to get another USGP but I don't think he is serious or he would be going to a facility that could really handle the race. If he was really trying to get one close to New York his best bet would be NJ Motorsports Park in southern NJ. It is close to Philadelphia and the facility is built with commercial events in mind and could be made F1 ready a lot easier than the places he is looking at right now.

http://jalopnik.com/...alysis/gallery/

[More&Faster]

good info. i'd never heard of the place. sounds like a pretty bad venue for F1.

[Redliner]

I have been on the Monticello track and it is really nice the way it is now. But it is a new facility and was designed as a country club track. They haven't even finished construction of the permanent structures other than the track. It was built on an old airstrip (kind of like Silverstone) and it has a really long back straight that used to be the runway. A little bit of elevation change which is nice and a few really tight corners which I am sure they would take out for formula 1.

It is in a really beautiful setting but there would have to be a ton of changes to make it able to handle the amount of people and equipment present for an F1 race. The area does have hotels and stuff and they also have a horse racing track and slot machine casino and stuff pretty close. Actually the original Woodstock took place a few miles from there too. Traffic in and out would be a nightmare though.

I think this is another one that won't go through just like the liberty state park thing. I think Bernie is just trying to make it look like he is trying to get another USGP but I don't think he is serious or he would be going to a facility that could really handle the race. If he was really trying to get one close to New York his best bet would be NJ Motorsports Park in southern NJ. It is close to Philadelphia and the facility is built with commercial events in mind and could be made F1 ready a lot easier than the places he is looking at right now.

http://jalopnik.com/...alysis/gallery/

I haz those same gloves!

IMS or no care. Actually, IMS, Infinion, RA, Laguna, etc. lol. No more Tilke-designed courses though...there's a local race track to me designed to be FIA sanctioned called Eagles Canyon. It's designed by someone from the FIA, and let me tell you how boring the race track is: long straights followed by U-turns. Suckiest course within a 3 hr radius. I can't handle these FIA courses anymore...

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

That Monticello track looks interesting, but it looks quite narrow compared to a FIA-spec permanent circuit.

[vietlol]

http://f1around.word...etiria-em-2010/


2010 Toybota apparently, HRT should have just forked out for this.

[DrDickAction]

http://f1around.word...etiria-em-2010/


2010 Toybota apparently, HRT should have just forked out for this.

Looks more developed than even the sauber or williams, let alone the HRT.

HRT should rock the raw CF livery too