1381 replies to this topic

[Redliner]

this is all karma for what they did to SA. They should have folded honda and kept SA alive last season

Sort of feel bad for Ross, but Nick Fry?

Fuck you Nick Fry.

Yah but you never, ever want to see a team fold like this. Because if Honda, a profitable company folds...what about the smaller teams like Force India and Williams

[kngrsll]

im just wondering whats next? not even for F1... i already cant get loans. even if i mange to get through school, how will i get a house? i am going into healthcare, but if there is no money, people wont be getting heart surgery....

[Nacho]

I have a hard time buying that though...
look at Toyota, they have so many sponsors they basically shit money... I haven't ever heard of them struggling to find $$$...and honda seems to be in better shape competitively wise for the past number of years... where as toyota only seemed to step it up this year really
how can they do it while honda loses BAR and all of a sudden they got no sponsorships or backing... that just doesn't make sense...

BAT was their big sponsor until tobacco was banned. Renault picked up ING, but they were coming off two world championships. They've pledged to continue, but who knows how well that'll go. Williams has RBS, but they're folding.

Toyota is such a huge company that it's a bit different. Panasonic may get some kickbacks from Toyota for sponsoring their F1 car, like preferred choice in car stereos or something.

[MrHahn]

To be fair, MS never fucking failboated like Kimi did.

Yeah true, Rubens should have been smart enough to see that. He got the opportunity to drive for a top-class team and then bitches that he was treated second best.

[_R_]

i am going into healthcare

you're golden job wise...

[kngrsll]

you're golden job wise...

[vietlol]

im just wondering whats next? not even for F1... i already cant get loans. even if i mange to get through school, how will i get a house? i am going into healthcare, but if there is no money, people wont be getting heart surgery....

pay cash

[vietlol]

I have a hard time buying that though...
look at Toyota, they have so many sponsors they basically shit money... I haven't ever heard of them struggling to find $$$...and honda seems to be in better shape competitively wise for the past number of years... where as toyota only seemed to step it up this year really
how can they do it while honda loses BAR and all of a sudden they got no sponsorships or backing... that just doesn't make sense...

toybota was pretty good in 05

[RedVVing19]

Nick Fry can burn in hell but its been fun laughing at Honda the past couple of years

I hate that retarded team that got embarrassed by the junior team.

[tefnut]

awww Honda awww

Maybe they'll be bought out by some oil-rich Gulf state they've already got like half of the racing calendar, isn't it time they have a Muhammad Racing Team or something

[_R_]

it's official...

Honda have announced their immediate withdrawal from Formula One, the Japanese manufacturer's president and CEO Takeo Fukui confirmed on Friday morning.

After a night of frenzied speculation about the future of the Honda Racing team, Fukui told a hastily called press conference in Tokyo that difficult financial conditions had forced the company to make the decision.

"Honda must protect its core business activities and secure the long term as widespread uncertainties in the economies around the globe continue to mount," he said. "A recovery is expected to take some time.

"Under these circumstances, Honda has taken swift and flexible measures to counter this sudden and expansive weakening of the marketplace in all business areas. However, in recognition of the need to optimize the allocation of management resources, including investment regarding the future, we have decided to withdraw from Formula One participation.

“We will enter into consultation with the associates of Honda Racing F1 Team and its engine supplier Honda Racing Development regarding the future of the two companies. This will include offering the team for sale."

Autosport.com understands that Honda Racing team principal Ross Brawn and CEO Nick Fry are due to fly to Tokyo on Monday for talks with the Japanese chiefs about the future.

Sources suggest that Honda chiefs have been told that the team will be funded only until March - giving them three months to find a new buyer before they are shut down.

It is understood staff have been told that potential buyers have already been lined up, with Brawn already focused on securing an engine supply deal with Ferrari to try and keep the team in F1.

Fukui admitted that the withdrawal decision had been a hard one to take - especially as Honda had taken a victory as a car maker in 2006 and had already invested a huge amount of money in bidding to return to the top under the leadership of Brawn.

He added: “In its third era of Formula One activities, Honda has been participating in Formula One races from the 2000 season, initially with BAR, by adopting a new format of jointly developing racing machines. Subsequently, in a move to meet the changing environment surrounding Formula One, we switched to running a 100% Honda-owned team commencing with the 2006 season.

“Surmounting many challenges, the Honda Team achieved a grand prix victory in 2006, enabling Honda to receive overwhelming support from Honda fans around the world that were looking forward to greater success.

“It, therefore, has been an extremely difficult decision for us to come to this conclusion without having been able to fully meet the expectations of our fans.

“By making the best of what we have learned during these times of economic turmoil, coupled with the spirit of challenge gained through active participation in racing, we intend to continue with our commitment in meeting new challenges.

“Finally, we would like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank our fans and all those who have supported Honda's Formula One efforts, including everyone in the world of Formula One."

[Nacho]

[_R_]

I'm kinda bummed the Senna basically just lost his chance at a drive... could care less about Rubens and Jenson...

hope Brawns sticks around somehow...

off season just got a whole lot more interesting...

[Redliner]

What a knee jerk reaction to the entire situation. There was no planning in this at all IMO. They were Di Grassi And Bruno just last fucking week...

[Nacho]

What a knee jerk reaction to the entire situation. There was no planning in this at all IMO. They were Di Grassi And Bruno just last fucking week...

It's probably been coming. Their pulling of SA's funding was probably more necessary than we thought, and their poor sales meant that their teetering F1 program was pushed over the edge.

[Redliner]

I'm kinda bummed the Senna basically just lost his chance at a drive... could care less about Rubens and Jenson...

hope Brawns sticks around somehow...

off season just got a whole lot more interesting...

I feel like selling my S suddenly

edit: kidding kidding. i <3 My s

[Redliner]

It's probably been coming. Their pulling of SA's funding was probably more necessary than we thought, and their poor sales meant that their teetering F1 program was pushed over the edge.

But Honda's still in the black...at least I thought they were.

[_R_]

somewhat interesting things this read raises

Three-car teams?

Formula One Management is understood to be required to bring at least 20 cars to each Grand Prix (there is some doubt over the exact figure - some suggest it could be as little as 16). If no buyer for the Brackley team is found, F1 will have only nine teams with 18 cars.

Therefore it may be necessary for some teams to field three cars. This potentially creates all kinds of complications:

How would it be decided which teams run three cars? Would all three be eligible for championship points?

Are the FIA and FOM able to demand teams run three cars if they have to? The commercial deal that governs F1, the Concorde Agreement, lapsed some time ago.

Are Toyota next?

Will other car manufacturers follow Honda in ending their F1 teams? Honda are by no means the only car manufacturer taking a hammering on sales and profits at the moment.

Once one team has been pulled we could see a domino effect where other car manufacturers look at what Honda has done and reason: ‘if they can cut their F1 programme, so can we’.

Given Honda’s decision to pull out, Toyota’s continues participation suddenly looks decidedly vulnerable. Toyota originally entered F1 in 2002 to go up against its major domestic rival which, at the time, was an engine supplier.

Toyota has reported a similar huge fall in its American market sales within days of Honda doing so: Honda’s sales fell by 32%, Toyota’s by 34%. Toyota has slashed its profit forecast for the current fiscal year from ¥1.25tr to ¥550bn ($13.4bn to $5.9bn).

Its $445.6m F1 budget may seem small by comparison but as the company drastically cuts back on car production and faces a huge fall in profits, sustaining an F1 team at great cost for little reward seems indefensible. There is already speculation that Toyota is not interested in competing in F1 without its chief rival and is preparing to pull out.

Meanwhile Renault has shed 6,000 workers and made deep production cuts. Could it be next in line?

What about their drivers?


Will Jenson Button have an F1 drive in 2009?

Honda were expected to continue with Jenson Button for 2009 and pair him with either Rubens Barrichello, Lucas di Grassi or Bruno Senna. Barrichello, F1’s oldest and most experienced driver, may find it hard to get a seat with another team.

Jenson Button has been with the team since 2003, scored their first win (for the modern incarnation of Honda), and has stuck with them through their 2007-2008 slump. If he is able to get any seat for 2009 his options seem limited to Toro Rosso or possibly Force India.

And its IRL programme?

It’s not clear whether Honda intends to continue its exclusive engine supply deal with the American-based Indy Racing League.

If Honda indeed decides to keep its IRL programme and drop its F1 team Bernie Ecclestone should take note - he allowed both of F1’s North American races to be priced off the calendar, despite objections from many fans and team owners, including Nick Fry.

What about the future cost-cutting plans?

The prospect of losing one of the manufacturer-backed F1 teams will surely harden the resolve of FIA president Max Mosley to increase the size and scope of his cost-cutting proposals, including the demand for standard engines.

The Formula One Teams Association met today to discuss future cost-cutting plans and claim they have “agreed to further measures implementing substantial cost cutting for 2009 and 2010″. Details of how this will be achieved are not known yet.

They also called for a move to a new specification of engine from 2011 - a 1.8-litre turbocharged unit using energy recovery systems, which it claims will use 30% less fuel. Will that be enough of a fuel saving to offset the development cost of these new engines?

And will it be a strong enough proposal to delay Max Mosley’s effort to impose standard engines on F1?

Could it affect the Japanese Grand Prix?


Will Honda-owned Suzuka keep its place on the 2009 F1 calendar?

Ollie on BlogF1 points out that as Honda operates Suzuka Circuit its role as a Grand Prix host could be in doubt. Suzuka is set to return to F1 as the host of the 2009 Japanese Grand Prix.

As well as the loss of the race’s owner from F1, it could lead to a significant downturn in local interest.

Will someone step in and buy the team?

There is a lot of speculation about whether a buyer for Honda might be found. It is not clear whether Honda would allow a new owner to continue using its engines (James Allen thinks not, Autosport suggests it might).

Inevitably speculation will fall on companies who most tried to enter F1 most recently, such as Dubai’s Magma Group and Germany’s Weigl Group, who looked into purchasing Super Aguri in April, or David Richard’s Prodrive company, which was originally going to enter a team this year.

Autosport suggests that Brawn could bring a Ferrari engine supply to the team. Ferrari is no longer supplying Force India and so in theory may have engines available.

But the chances of finding a buyer able and willing to pump hundreds of millions of dollars into running an F1 team - however cheaply Honda sell the team - seems extremely unlikely in the current economic climate.

That said, if Ecclestone really does have a vested interest in finding a buyer due to the ‘20 cars’ clause, then he is the man to get it done.

I hope it happens. Not just for the future of F1, but for the hundreds of workers at Brackley.

[Nacho]

But Honda's still in the black...at least I thought they were.

And they want to stay there.

[MrHahn]

As much as I laughed at Honda and hated Britains bias towards Jenson Button its sad to see any team in F1 go

[Redliner]

And they want to stay there.

We, Honda Motor Co., Ltd., have come to the conclusion that we will withdraw from all Formula One activities, making 2008 the last season of participation.

This difficult decision has been made in light of the quickly deteriorating operating environment facing the global auto industry, brought on by the sub-prime problem in the United States, the deepening credit crisis and the sudden contraction of the world economies.

Honda must protect its core business activities and secure the long term as widespread uncertainties in the economies around the globe continue to mount. A recovery is expected to take some time.

Under these circumstances, Honda has taken swift and flexible measures to counter this sudden and expansive weakening of the marketplace in all business areas. However, in recognition of the need to optimize the allocation of management resources, including investment regarding the future, we have decided to withdraw from Formula One participation. We will enter into consultation with the associates of Honda Racing F1 Team and its engine supplier Honda Racing Development regarding the future of the two companies. This will include offering the team for sale.

In its third era of Formula One activities, Honda has been participating in Formula One races from the 2000 season, initially with BAR, by adopting a new format of jointly developing racing machines. Subsequently, in a move to meet the changing environment surrounding Formula One, we switched to running a 100% Honda-owned team commencing with the 2006 season.

Surmounting many challenges, the Honda Team achieved a Grand Prix victory in 2006, enabling Honda to receive overwhelming support from Honda fans around the world that were looking forward to greater success. It, therefore, has been an extremely difficult decision for us to come to this conclusion without having been able to fully meet the expectations of our fans.

By making the best of what we have learned during these times of economic turmoil, coupled with the spirit of challenge gained through active participation in racing, we intend to continue with our commitment in meeting new challenges.

Finally, we would like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank our fans and all those who have supported Honda's Formula One efforts, including everyone in the world of Formula One.

Thank you very much.

Takeo Fukui
President and CEO
Honda Motor Co., Ltd.

You know...after I've calmed down, I guess it's the prudent thing to do. Honda could continue on in unprofitable ventures like GM/Ford/Chrysler and join the failboat, or do what's necessary and cut the excessive fat to stay in the black. Just a shame...

[Nacho]

Max and Bernie are making their move

Cosworth has won the tender to supply a low-cost engine and transmission package in 2010 and beyond, Formula One's governing body announced on Friday.

In the wake of Honda's shock departure from the sport, the FIA said in a statement that the news confirmed its fears about the current financial format, and sent a letter to team bosses.

It is revealed that the cost to teams wanting to use the un-badged Cosworth engine option will be $2m euros, plus 5.5 million euros each season.

"The annual cost will reduce if more (than four) teams take up the option," FIA President Max Mosley wrote.

Teams not wanting to use the standard engine have 'the right to build an engine themselves', or a de-tuned version of their current 2.
4 litre V8s, but must use a standard transmission supplied by Ricardo Transmissions, a British company.

Mosley said the measures will help small teams survive, and also pave the way for the replacement of more outgoing manufacturers, 'as seems likely' to be necessary.

He wants four teams to sign up the scheme by next Thursday, or the price may go up.

[marone]

hopefully the Magma Group buys Honda and Nick Fry gets dumped back to the lowest formula EVER.

[Robert]

Many thanks to Max, Bernie for your continued success in destroying a once proud and admired sport.

[_R_]

i'm sad....
starting to wonder if there is a point to f1 anymore