909 replies to this topic

[Redliner]

This whole exhaust at the diffuser thing...wasn't this done back in the 80s & 90s to create downforce? Why're they all like suddenly "OMGz, blowing exhaust into the diffuser adds downforce without drag!? "

Did engineers suddenly just forget everything?

[Nacho]

gay. gayer than blowing rear ends. They are banning F-duct, an organic system, only to take up a standardized system? booo.

Bring back KERS if anything. At least thats a power adder.

You could also use the F-duct whenever, so it wasn't a free pass for anyone behind you to overtake.

[mads]

This whole exhaust at the diffuser thing...wasn't this done back in the 80s & 90s to create downforce? Why're they all like suddenly "OMGz, blowing exhaust into the diffuser adds downforce without drag!? "

Did engineers suddenly just forget everything?

you mean kinda like the shark fin?

[mads]

[mads]

excerpt from an article i was just reading...

;This isn’t a new solution, in fact Renault exploited this as early as 1983, when diffusers first appears in place of the banned full-length ground effect tunnels. Renault split the pipes exiting the turbocharger into three and directed them exactly at the point where the flat floor kicks up the form the diffuser. Soon most teams followed this format and for twenty or so years teams experimented with different exhaust outlet positions within the diffuser. As F1 switched from turbocharged engines to normally aspirated, the flow out of the exhausts was no longer ‘smoothed’ by the action of the turbo, the flow became much more abruptly on or off. along with the increasing dominance of the downforce created by the diffuser, this made the amount of downforce produced vary depending on throttle position, i.e. more downforce at full throttle where the flow was aided by the engine, then less downforce as the driver lifted off reducing the through flow. To negate the effect teams moved the exhaust outlets from the diffusers kick line to a less sensitive position, normally further up the diffuser roof. Eventually teams sought to avoid any sensitivity and move the exhausts clear of the diffuser and blew them over the top of the exit. Until Ferrari shifted their exhausts to exit periscope style in 1998. Most teams followed this approach aside from a few teams, which wanted to keep the blown effect, notably this was Both McLaren and Minardi. Eventually both teams had to divert from blown diffusers in order to package the much shorter exhaust pipe lengths demanded by the engine suppliers. It was Adrian Newey at McLaren that raced the last heavily blown diffuser, the MP4-16 exited its pipes low down in the middle of the diffuser. In 2002 the MP4-17 went to periscope exits due the demands of the Mercedes engine. At the cars 2002 launch he told me “Requests from the engine supplier, from Ilmor, was different exhaust system requirements which meant we could no longer continue with putting the exhausts exits out through the floor so we had to go for top exits”. I asked if this was an engine related requirement not aero, Newey said “yes”. I further prompted him if this was for shorter pipe lengths? He replied “I’d rather not go into details; we couldn’t accommodate what was wanted”. Underlining his commitment to the blown diffuser philosophy, I asked he’d tried try top exits on the old car (mp4-16)? Newey said “No never”.



Contrary to the popular belief the low exhaust position is not related to the Red Bulls Pull rod suspension, in some respects having the exhaust in close proximity to the pull rod\rocker linkage is undesirable. But the exhaust positioning is probably more sensitive to wishbone position, such that teams aiming for low wishbones may have problems packaging the exhaust under the suspension. McLaren and Virgin have notably low wishbones.


Another misconception of the low exhaust is the effect on tyre temperature. It’s possible the exhaust does affect the inner shoulder of the rear tyres, but this may well be an effect teams want to discourage. Any tyre heating will certainly be secondary benefit of the system and the sole reason for going with low exhausts. Its interesting to note Red Bull have run a fence on the floor between the exhaust and rear tyre. This probably helps keep unwanted heat from the tyres. But in Canada, where tyre temperatures were, this fence was removed. It could be that the tyre heating effect could be a tuneable parameter, by varying the heat shielding around the coke bottle area.

[vietlol]

holy fuck webbo

[mads]

jesus fucking christ that was insane.

Kubica 07 insane

[Nacho]

Webbo: No stranger to being upside down



2:37 for this one

[Redliner]

Whitmarsh: 'New' FIA making F1 better

By Jonathan Noble and Mark Glendenning Thursday, July 1st 2010, 17:06 GMT


McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh believes Formula 1 is benefiting from a less-confrontational stance from the FIA - with Fernando Alonso's recent outburst over events in Valencia showing how things are different under Jean Todt's presidency.

With the governing body appearing more willing to let drivers race rather than be punished for questionable incidents, and also to not get involved in public conflict as it could have done after Alonso's 'manipulated' comments, Whitmarsh thinks the sport is actually being made better.

"We are racing more naturally now," Whitmarsh said after the FOTA/Santander fans' forum in London on Thursday. "There always will be goals that were not goals, and those sorts of things – they happen in sport and you have to accept it.

"In fairness now, to Jean and the FIA, even from where I am sat, things happen in the race and you think that is going to cause so much aggravation – but it doesn't. And even drivers are thinking that now.

"There is a fine line: you want it to be safe, to be fair, and you want decisions to be instantaneous, but you want drivers to have a go. And when you have a go in racing cars, you are going to get incidents, you are going to get controversy and you are going to get two drivers who see an incident from completely different perspective.

"Alonso was fairly outspoken but actually people want a bit of that, and it doesn't worry me. In the past you have not been able to question. There has to be a limit, some fine lines, but not being able to question a referee's decisions, or umpire's decisions or stewards' decision? And frankly you have not been able to do that."

He added: "People complained about a sterility of conversations and debate within the paddock, but there was a regime where you were not even allowed to [question] have we got it right? As that would bring the sport into disrepute.

"Now I don't think it is reasonable for any of us to go on a blast and criticise the FIA over anything, there have to be some limits and we have to be respectful to the FIA, but I think it is acceptable for people to display their passion, enthusiasm and agreement in the sport. It is a healthy thing."

Todt is doing a lot better than I thought he would...frikkin' Max.

[Redliner]

Jock Clear makes a really valid point about overtaking...

[Nacho]

Martin Whitmarsh is actually rather funny.

[Redliner]

Martin Whitmarsh is actually rather funny.

He has gone a long way to making me actually respect McLaren again...even tho they were embroiled in that lying scandal early on last year.

[_R_]

Martin Whitmarsh is actually rather funny.

McLaren is actually a pretty cool company, Ron Dennis is the "evil dictator" that everyone ties McLaren with, and assumes it's super strict, but after seeing some behind the scenes, and watching the Red Button F1 Forum on BBC, McLaren is not as strict and dictatorship as it's made out to be... it's really Ron Dennis...

kinda like Apple and Steve Jobs... although Steve is opening up now with his emails to customers... I wonder if almost dying changed his outlook on stuff...

[Nacho]

McLaren is actually a pretty cool company, Ron Dennis is the "evil dictator" that everyone ties McLaren with, and assumes it's super strict, but after seeing some behind the scenes, and watching the Red Button F1 Forum on BBC, McLaren is not as strict and dictatorship as it's made out to be... it's really Ron Dennis...

kinda like Apple and Steve Jobs... although Steve is opening up now with his emails to customers... I wonder if almost dying changed his outlook on stuff...

If anything, Steve Job's emails have only made him seem more a prick/dictator. IMO, anyway.

[_R_]

If anything, Steve Job's emails have only made him seem more a prick/dictator. IMO, anyway.

try emailing any CEO of a major company and see if you get a reply...
prick or dictator at least he talks to his customers directly...

[Nacho]

try emailing any CEO of a major company and see if you get a reply...
prick or dictator at least he talks to his customers directly...

Meh, it's just a PR campaign to make the apple fanboys wet themselves in anticipation of a potential one or two line response from their messiah.

Most other people see a seemingly more delusional man slip further and further up his own ass, from ranting about Android being a phone with nothing but porn apps to telling customers they're holding their phone wrong instead of admitting that there's an issue with his product.

[DrDickAction]

[Redliner]

Apple is the new Microsoft.

[vietlol]

Apple is now worth more than Microsoft.

[MrHahn]

Apple is the new Microsoft.

Watching Steve Jobs telling an audience to turn off their wifi, then basically blackmailing them into doing what he says. Priceless.

[yonson]

Watching Steve Jobs telling an audience to turn off their wifi, then basically blackmailing them into doing what he says. Priceless.

Yet the apple fanboi's all do it and applaud Frauds errr Jobs for telling them to do so...

[Nacho]

Webbo getting shafted

Webber given Vettel's old chassis

By Jonathan Noble and Edd Straw Monday, July 5th 2010, 13:04 GMT

Mark Webber is to get a replacement chassis from the British Grand Prix, AUTOSPORT has learned, after the team felt it was not worth pushing his Valencia crash car back into full-time service.

Although the car that Webber crashed spectacularly in the European GP could be repaired, the team has decided to make that tub, chassis number 4, a spare for the remainder of the season.

On the back of that, Red Bull Racing has elected from Silverstone to give Webber chassis number 3 - the same one that team-mate Sebastian Vettel ditched after Monaco because he was not happy with it.

Vettel claimed after Monaco that he felt there was something wrong with the car, and the team duly discovered faults with it that meant he moved to chassis number 2 from the Turkish Grand Prix.

Speaking about the change at the time, Vettel said: "I was complaining for the last couple of races that something was not feeling right, and it was good on Sunday night [in Monaco] when we decided to change the chassis anyway just to make a change and find something. I think it explains a lot. On top of that, we also found other things that weren't in proper shape."

Since the problems that Vettel encountered with chassis 3, Red Bull Racing has undertaken a thorough analysis of the car and made repairs to the damage that it found.

The likelihood that the issues with chassis 3 were more related to damage than a manufacturing fault are increased by the fact that it is the car that delivered Vettel's first victory of the season in Malaysia.

[_R_]

Webbo getting shafted

perhaps it was cheaper to fix Vettels car than Webbers? plus the turn around time is 2 weeks? cost cutting?

[DrDickAction]

perhaps it was cheaper to fix Vettels car than Webbers? plus the turn around time is 2 weeks? cost cutting?

Wow, lame.

kind of remarkable that a team in the hunt would start cutting costs...on chassis of all things

[vietlol]

my posting is not working