1381 replies to this topic

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

i guess photographers at the tests are getting bored too...

http://www.autosport...o.php/id/121061

[Redliner]

i guess photographers at the tests are getting bored too...

http://www.autosport...o.php/id/121061

Any new pics of the new cars? Some of the Williams cars look pretty good on the new aero setup, I admit. But the rear wing needs to be wider / lower to make it look proper.

[yonson]

i guess photographers at the tests are getting bored too...

http://www.autosport...o.php/id/121061

good pic, meh composure, but nice dof...

[mads]

[yonson]

That one doesn't look that bad!

[Redliner]

That one doesn't look that bad!

Looks like a 08-spec rear wing, right?

[kngrsll]

Looks like a 08-spec rear wing, right?

i think so...

[_R_]

The McLaren-Mercedes team joined some of their rivals on Wednesday in launching a new-for-2009 look at the Jerez circuit, running a revised front wing.

Spanish test driver Pedro de la Rosa took to the Spanish circuit with an interim version of the MP4-23 car, with the radical front wing and a 2008-like rear one.

The British squad are one of the first to test with their 2009 wing, joining rivals BMW Sauber, who have already been testing their 2009 aero package for some time.

Unlike BMW's, McLaren's front wing did not include the distinctive endplates.

De la Rosa was joined today by Finn Heikki Kovalainen, who is getting his first taste of the MP4-23K, the car used for KERS testing.

McLaren's director of engineering Paddy Lowe said earlier this week that the team were 'very positive' about the progress made with their 2009 so far.

"I am very positive actually," Lowe told autosport.com. "We have got a lot of exciting things coming through to the car - some of them from new regulations and some of them which are things we were working on anyway. So I am feeling very optimistic actually.

"Obviously there is a bit of a shake-up with all the rules, as anything can happen. But the team are working very, very well, so I think wherever we end up we will feel proud of what we have done."

2009 front + 2008 style rear

[_R_]

Sebastien Buemi continued to show impressive form in testing at Jerez, where the Swiss driver topped the times for the second day running.

Buemi's time of 1:18.073 put him over half a second clear of Takuma Sato, as Toro Rosso dominated the session once again.

Buemi and Sato worked alongside Sebastien Bourdais, all three men fighting for the two racing seats at the Italian squad. Four-time ChampCar champion Bourdais was the slowest of the trio, finishing in fourth place.

McLaren's Pedro de la Rosa split the Toro Rossos as he worked for the first time with a 2009 front wing fitted to the heavily revised MP4-23A car.

The Spaniard was joined by Finn Heikki Kovalainen, who drove the KERS test car. Kovalainen was sixth fastest behind compatriot Kimi Raikkonen in the quickest of the Ferraris.

Raikkonen was left lamenting the lack of mileage done today, as the track was still wet in the morning.

"We haven't done many kilometres over these two days, because the conditions weren't really good," he said. "We're mainly trying to understand how the slicks work and we're testing some solutions the car will use in the upcoming season.

"It's useless to speculate about what will be in the future. Too many things are different on the cars on the track. To get a precise idea we have to wait until we all have the new cars."

Raikkonen's teammate Felipe Massa arrived at 3:30pm straight from Brazil and joined the session to complete 27 laps.

Two-time world champion Fernando Alonso returned to action following the end of the season, the Spaniard the only Renault driver on track today. Alonso, who covered 105 laps, caused a red flag when he went off track in the morning.

"It was a good day and I'm happy to be back in the car," Alonso said. "Unfortunately I damaged the car a little bit in the morning and so we lost some running, but the team did a good job to repair the car quickly and I was able to run almost all of the afternoon without any problems.

"It was nice to run on the slick tyres as they are more grippy, but when you lose the downforce from the car they don't feel massively different to grooved tyres."

BMW-Sauber duo Nick Heidfeld and Robert Kubica finished as ninth and 11th quickest respectively, the Pole managing just 38 laps after stopping on track around 2pm.

The third red flag of the day was caused by Williams driver Nico Rosberg.

Today's times:

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:18.073 128
2. Sato Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:18.601 38
3. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:18.673 81
4. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:19.032 78
5. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:19.334 89
6. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:19.631 64
7. Alonso Renault (B) 1:19.907 106
8. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:20.309 122
9. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:20.365 87
10. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:20.490 27
11. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:20.954 38

Sato only did 38 laps in comparison to Buemi 128

[PeaceCalling]

whats going on guys

[yonson]

2009 front + 2008 style rear

That's how they should keep it!

[mads]

i like the mclaren better then their current bridge wingtastrophe

[MrHahn]

Buemi is sure showing his worth against Bourdais - even if he is doing double the laps in testing. I think the Mclaren only looks good because of the back wing. The red wing stands out like lips with bright lipstick and the nose has been punched in the face and is now swollen

[vietlol]

Drivers reporting that the rears grain up and go off completely very quickly

[Nacho]

Drivers reporting that the rears grain up and go off completely very quickly

At least the lack of competition in tires means that it won't get fixed.

[MrHahn]

Sounds like more dorifto this year - awesome!

[Nacho]

In the wake of his Red Bull test last month, Sebastien Loeb has admitted he would seriously consider an offer to switch to F1 in 2010.

The five-time rally champion, who is contracted to drive for Citroen in the WRC next year, impressed observers and experts alike when he was firmly on the pace of F1's regular drivers during the recent Barcelona test.

"The team bosses think I am too old, but mentally I am not: age would not be an obstacle for me," the 34-year-old told the French newspaper Liberation.

Loeb said: "With a testing programme in 2009, I would go to the Formula One grid in 2010."

The winner of the last five world rally titles admitted disillusionment with the WRC, criticising the 2009 calendar, the evolution of the cars, and the regulations.

If he's disillusioned with the calendar, regulations and evolution of WRC cars, wait till he gets to F1!

[Shi]

I think it's more to put pressure on the WRC organisers than a genuine intention to switch imo

[_R_]

Tomorrow's World Motor Sport Council meeting is expected to announce that the future of the World Rally Car will be based on Super 2000 machinery alone, forcing the hand of firms like Subaru to create a whole new car.

It had been expected that the next generation of World Rally Car would be based on both Super 2000 and Group N cars - with a kit of parts being added to both to create the new WRC.

The World Rally Championship Commission has made a detailed study of both categories and it is reported that it would be too difficult to maintain performance parity between the two.

Such a decision will force Subaru's hand if it remains in the sport. The Japanese firm had been considering running its car off the Group N Impreza WRX, but that car would now be redundant at the highest level of the sport.

The Commission reported in its proposal to the WMSC, leaked to autosport.com, that there were serious concerns over the cost implications of trying to level the playing field between two quite different cars.

The proposal states: "There is clearly a problem in managing the performance equalisation which is necessary when the Super 2000 and Group N cars are competing directly with each other."

Tomorrow's meeting of the WMSC is also expected to outline an agreement with Ralliart Italy to supply the five Mitsubishi Lancer Evo Xs for the Pirelli Star Drive winners.

Subaru might possibly pull out, and Loeb has stated if it goes Super 2000 rules he doesn't want to do WRC anymore...
So maybe he'll switch to circuit racing? He epic on tarmac, and he's done LeMans a couple times...

[_R_]

Sebastien Buemi maintained his domination of this week's test at Jerez in Spain with the fastest time on Thursday, just edging out his Scuderia Toro Rosso teammate Takuma Sato.

Both drivers set their fastest times late morning, when the track conditions are traditionally at their best, as they aim to impresses their bosses enough to secure race drives for 2009.

McLaren's Heikki Kovalainen continued his testing work for McLaren, taking over the MP4-23A to focus on aerodynamic and set-up evaluation work for McLaren, to set the third quickest time.

Teammate Pedro de la Rosa was in the KERS car today, but only completed 47 laps.

Kimi Raikkonen was the fastest Ferrari driver as he set the fourth best time, just ahead of returning teammate Felipe Massa.

Seventh fastest Nico Rosberg was Williams' sole representative, while BMW Sauber duo Robert Kubica and Christian Klien ended the day at the bottom of the timesheets as they focused on 2009 aerodynamic and KERS work.

More to follow.

Today's times:

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:17.258 139
2. Sato Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:17.520 119
3. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:18.049 96
4. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:18.782 82
5. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:19.050 72
6. Alonso Renault (B) 1:19.319 124
7. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:19.388 130
8. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:19.499 47
9. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:19.559 134
10. Klien BMW-Sauber (B) 1:19.738 101

That kid is really making Bourdais work for that seat... if I was in Bourdais's place, seeing Buemi and Sato get in a car and do so well with little time behind the wheel compared to a seasons worth... I'd be a little nervous...

[Nacho]

That kid is really making Bourdais work for that seat... if I was in Bourdais's place, seeing Buemi and Sato get in a car and do so well with little time behind the wheel compared to a seasons worth... I'd be a little nervous...

Bourdais has already been whining that whoever gets the seat simply paid more than he did, giving him an out that doesn't mention his lack of talent.

[kngrsll]

Bourdais has already been whining that whoever gets the seat simply paid more than he did, giving him an out that doesn't mention his lack of talent.

paving the way for him to blame something after his exit

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

paving the way for him to blame something after his exit

so what was scott speed's excuse? argument with gerhard?

[Nacho]

so what was scott speed's excuse? argument with gerhard?

I think it was 'fist fight' with Gerhard.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

The full list of cost-cutting measures

Friday, December 12th 2008, 13:10 GMT

The World Motor Sport Council met in Monaco on 12 December 2008. The following decisions were taken:

FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP

The following measures to reduce costs in Formula One have been agreed by the World Motor Sport Council. These proposed changes have the unanimous agreement of the Formula One teams, who have played a major role in their development. The FIA is grateful to the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) and its Chairman Luca di Montezemolo for their incisive contribution.

2009

Engine

Engine life to be doubled. Each driver will use a maximum of eight engines for the season plus four for testing (thus 20 per team).
Limit of 18,000 rpm.

No internal re-tuning. Adjustment to trumpets and injectors only.


The three-race rule voted on 5 November remains in force.

Cost of engines to independent teams will be approximately 50% of 2008 prices.

Unanimous agreement was reached on a list of proposed changes to the Renault engine for 2009; all other engines will remain unchanged. Comparative testing will not be necessary.

Testing

No in-season testing except during race weekend during scheduled practice.

Aerodynamic research

No wind tunnel exceeding 60% scale and 50 metres/sec to be used after 1 January 2009.

A formula to balance wind tunnel-based research against CFD research, if agreed between the teams, will be proposed to the FIA.

Factory activity

Factory closures for six weeks per year, to accord with local laws.

Race weekend

Manpower to be reduced by means of a number of measures, including sharing information on tyres and fuel to eliminate the need for "spotters".

Sporting spectacle

Market research is being conducted to gauge the public reaction to a number of new ideas, including possible changes to qualifying and a proposal for the substitution of medals for points for the drivers. Proposals will be submitted to the FIA when the results of the market research are known.

Note: It is estimated that these changes for 2009 will save the manufacturer teams approximately 30% of their budgets compared to 2008, while the savings for independent teams will be even greater.

2010

Power train

Engines will be available to the independent teams for less than €5 million per team per season. These will either come from an independent supplier or be supplied by the manufacturer teams backed by guarantees of continuity. If an independent supplier, the deal will be signed no later than 20 December 2008.

This same engine will continue to be used in 2011 and 2012 (thus no new engine for 2011).

Subject to confirmation of practicability, the same transmission will be used by all teams.

Chassis

A list of all elements of the chassis will be prepared and a decision taken in respect of each element as to whether or not it will remain a performance differentiator (competitive element).

Some elements which remain performance differentiators will be homologated for the season.

Some elements will remain performance differentiators, but use inexpensive materials.

Elements which are not performance differentiators will be prescriptive and be obtained or manufactured in the most economical possible way.

Race weekend

Standardised radio and telemetry systems.

Ban on tyre warmers.

Ban on mechanical purging of tyres.

Ban on refueling.

Possible reduction in race distance or duration (proposal to follow market research).

Factory activity

Further restrictions on aerodynamic research.

Ban on tyre force rigs (other than vertical force rigs).

Full analysis of factory facilities with a view to proposing further restrictions on facilities.

Longer term

The FIA and FOTA will study the possibility of an entirely new power train for 2013 based on energy efficiency (obtaining more work from less energy consumed). Rules to be framed so as to ensure that research and development of such a power train would make a real contribution to energy-efficient road transport.

An enhanced Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) system is likely to be a very significant element of an energy-efficient power train in the future. In the short term, KERS is part of the 2009 regulations, but is not compulsory. For 2010 FOTA is considering proposals for a standard KERS system. The FIA awaits proposals.

A number of further amendments were adopted for the 2009 and 2010 Sporting and Technical Regulations.

So much fail..

1) Renault gets engine upgrade, but nobody else. Basically Toyota and whoever picks up Honda get screwed.

2) Homologation on any parts that actually make any sort of performance increase in '10.

3) Refueling ban.