2253 replies to this topic

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

Ferrari, BMW, Toyota and Red Bull seem the most hard-line.

Toyota, IMO, because it gives themselves an excuse to bail from F1 besides the whole "we fucking suck at it" excuse.

Renault has been looking for a reason to bail too.. Give these guys a big enough reason to shut down the operation and there's no question in my mind they'd go ahead and tell the FIA to go fuck themselves. My only worry is Toyota and Renault call it a day for designing open-wheel racing cars and then we're left with Farce 1 + half of FOTA without enough manufacturers to start a new series, and even less manufacturers involved in motorsports worldwide.

[Redliner]

M&F:

F1 is def. not bigger than FIA. But the FIA needs to know they are not bigger than all the current teams in F1 as well. This is ONE man, running the entire FIA like a dictatorship without any due legislation to the greater goods of the team. How the hell did he get all that power? I say it once, and I say it again, where the fuck is the check and balance systems within the FIA? The FIA is a composed of car clubs around the world. If he was the President of the United States, he would've been kicked out of office.

And think about what it really means to slash the budget from XXX million down to 40 million in less than one year. The loss of jobs, the impact to the local economy of the cities of the factories, the moral factor at the teams. It's impossible for the teams to do so! No one DISAGREES with slashing of the budget, and the FOTA have come up with compromise after compromise. Yet he shuts down every single option from the teams: My way, or the highway. Really, is this 1st grade? Fucking dictatorship.

So what's the most likely outcome to the current situation: 8 teams drop out of F1, including the greatest team in F1 of all time Ferrari. You say F1 doesn't need Ferrari. You're wrong - they need each other. Just like CART needed Indy. Look at the IRL now - they are a shell of what they formerly were. And their greatest race of all? Who here really cared about the Indy 500 this year? Ferrari to F1 is F1 to Ferrari. They are the soul of F1. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the mftgs all come out there to race against Ferrari. Why? Because Ferrari has been the benchmark for everyone else for 60 years. Because from a marketing standpoint, if Toyota F1 beats Ferrari...you can link that back to the same DNA in your car. Without Ferrari, mftgs cannot link the progress of their F1 team to the public. How do you link it against an unknown team like Campos F1/USF1/Brawn. . You can't - being in F1 would be pointless for the mftgs and the sponsors.

And so they leave. And when they leave, F1 will just be an expensive GP2.

F'n Mad Max cannot see the daylight pass his fucking ass and has no fucking vision for F1. How in the world can he not see what he is doing? He has not shown any compassion or any willingness to work for the greater good of F1. He is senile. He is power-hungry. He needs to die.

Fuck You Max Mosely.

[_R_]

You know... thinking about this... has Bernie come out at all and said something?
I mean being the money troll that he is... if the big 5/6 walk out... where's his honey pot going to come from?
I mean shit, Red Bull alone is a HUGE marketing machine...

[Robert]

M&F:

F1 is def. not bigger than FIA. But the FIA needs to know they are not bigger than all the current teams in F1 as well. This is ONE man, running the entire FIA like a dictatorship without any due legislation to the greater goods of the team. How the hell did he get all that power? I say it once, and I say it again, where the fuck is the check and balance systems within the FIA? The FIA is a composed of car clubs around the world. If he was the President of the United States, he would've been kicked out of office.

And think about what it really means to slash the budget from XXX million down to 40 million in less than one year. The loss of jobs, the impact to the local economy of the cities of the factories, the moral factor at the teams. It's impossible for the teams to do so! No one DISAGREES with slashing of the budget, and the FOTA have come up with compromise after compromise. Yet he shuts down every single option from the teams: My way, or the highway. Really, is this 1st grade? Fucking dictatorship.....

F'n Mad Max cannot see the daylight pass his fucking ass and has no fucking vision for F1. How in the world can he not see what he is doing? He has not shown any compassion or any willingness to work for the greater good of F1. He is senile. He is power-hungry. He needs to die.

Fuck You Max Mosely.

Pretty much covered the present situation I'm afraid.

[MrHahn]

I wouldn't rule out VW/Audi entering. The main reason they haven't entered F1 is because they dont find it feasible. Now with $40 mil cap its ridiculously cheap, far cheaper than to develop the R15.

Also VW has strong ties with Red Bull, so even if they dont enter as a team - they may enter as a engine supplier

[Shi]

I don't think it's that hard to sign contracts with 15 tracks, make up a set of specifications, sign a nice contract with ITV.

This is nothing more than Firing the FIA and FOM, not really starting a sport from scratch.

A1GP...

[DrDickAction]

A1GP...

even easier

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/75903

Litespeed to use Lotus name for F1 bid

By Matt Beer Sunday, June 7th 2009, 03:12 GMT

Litespeed has announced that it will use the historic Lotus name for its attempt to enter Formula 1 next season.

The Norfolk-based Formula 3 squad's founders Nino Judge and Steve Kenchington are both former Lotus engineers, and have received permission from Lotus name rights-holder David Hunt to use the evocative title for their F1 bid.

"Team Lotus is synonymous with great British engineering and F1 innovation, such as the Lotus 25 being the first monocoque chassis in F1 and the introduction of groundbreaking sponsorship, both of which easily demonstrate why ex-Lotus personnel would want to bring this championship-winning name back to the formula," said Judge.

"Litespeed was born from a similar British background - a factor that was at the core of Colin Chapman's beliefs and subsequent success.

"David Hunt has been the custodian of the name for so many years and we thank him for entrusting us not just with its safeguard but, more importantly, its development in the racing world of tomorrow."

The team had already revealed that former Tyrrell, Jordan, Renault, Toyota and Force India technical boss Mike Gascoyne had begun design work via his MGI organisation. Gascoyne also welcomed the news that the project would use the Lotus title.

"I am Norfolk born and bred," said Gascoyne. "For me to continue my F1 career under the banner of the Team Lotus name and help to bring it back to its deserving place in the world championship is a fantastic feeling and something that I am extremely proud to be doing."

Litespeed will base the Lotus F1 project in the RTN facility in Norfolk previously used by TOM'S and which later housed Audi and Bentley's Le Mans projects.

The team has also recruited Johnny Herbert, who raced for Lotus in F1 from 1991 to 1994, as a commercial ambassador and driver manager.

Founded by legendary designer and innovator Colin Chapman, the original Lotus team moved into F1 in 1958 after success in sportscars and Formula 2. It would go on to earn seven constructors' titles and take Jim Clark, Graham Hill, Jochen Rindt, Emerson Fittipaldi and Mario Andretti to drivers' championships.

Its last race wins came with Ayrton Senna in 1987, after which its fortunes went into sharp decline - the famous team eventually closing its doors at the end of an uncompetitive and cash-strapped 1994 season.

Lotus is the third famous name to be associated with a prospective new F1 entrant for 2010, with other start-up projects having already announced plans to use the March and Brabham titles.

Gascoyne? Way to ruin the Lotus name and image


...and yeah, Brawn sides with FOTA.. So Farce1 = Williams + Force India + USGP + Lame Lotus + GP2 teams + LMP2 teams. Sounds like a thriller of a series, I can't wait...

[Nacho]

...and yeah, Brawn sides with FOTA.. So Farce1 = Williams + Force India + USGP + Lame Lotus + GP2 teams + LMP2 teams. Sounds like a thriller of a series, I can't wait...

With how key Ross is in the FOTA, i didn't see them going to the other side, honestly.

[More&Faster]

except from james allen: http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/ (sorry the text didn't copy correctly)

We’ve had a great response to the post about what the teams mean to F1, some great thoughts.

Picking up on Max Mosley’s analogy of F1 as being like a restaurant we had this very well considered contribution from Bradley,

“The restaurant at Le Mans is open for 24 Hours and remains great, no matter who the diners are.

“Ferrari ate there for a while and left, so did Mercedes, BMW, Toyota and others, then they left too. And the race stayed great.

“I’d suggest that, as long as there are diners coming to the restaurant, it doesn’t matter who they are (although Ferrari should always be allowed their favourite table).

“Equally, even if Max didn’t choose the best metaphor, it doesn’t mean that, to quote another commentator, the turkeys should be allowed to run Christmas, in other words, that his point is wrong.

“Equally, apart from Toyota, every manufacturer team is, deep down, a re-badged racing team – Renault was Benetton and before that Toleman, BMW was Sauber, Red Bull was Jaguar/Stewart, and Toro Rosso Minardi.

“Even if the manufacturers aren’t in F1, I’d imagine those groups of people and skills will be.

“And F1 isn’t any greater because the Benetton team is called Renault, or Sauber called BMW.”

My colleague Michael Schmidt of Auto Motor und Sport has jogged my memory of something I looked at around the time when the Formula One Teams Association was formed, last September.

I remember asking Ron Dennis how the FOTA teams were going to make sure that Ferrari didn’t repeat what it had done in 2005 and split off to side with the FIA when it suited them. He replied that Ferrari was looking at things quite differently now and that in any case the manufacturers had all agreed to bind themselves to each other by agreeing a fine if one of them broke away.

Michael has written today that the fine is €50 million. Now I think about it, this has to be considered central to the way FOTA is conducting itself at the moment. In other words the five teams; Ferrari, McLaren Mercedes, Toyota, Renault and BMW Sauber are a block.

But the fact remains that if the FIA goes to court and can prove that Ferrari has a binding contract to race in F1 in 2010 then the game will be up for the others.

from the James Allen blog. i thought it was a good piece. a 50 million euro fine to leave FOTA means some of those teams probably are NOT willing to actually leave F1, but are willing to put up the front for a while in order to use it as a bargaining chip. if mosley stands his ground, and i think he will, i think we might be losing some heavy-hitting teams, but not all of them. brawn would be among those who stay with the FIA i think, considering their budget and especially considering how they're winning right now.

[_R_]

so the fine if they leave is more than the budget cap...

[_R_]

FIA president Max Mosley has written to the eight remaining Formula One Teams' Association members urging them to enter next year's championship unconditionally so they can help shape the rules they want, AUTOSPORT can reveal.

After a weekend of high tension at the Turkish Grand Prix ahead of the publication on Friday of the 2010 entry list, Mosley's much-awaited response to the eight FOTA teams appeared conciliatory.

Mosley claimed that the best way the teams could help mould the future of the sport the way they wanted would be to drop the conditions attached to the entries they had made to the 2010 championship.

In fact, he reckoned it would be 'simple' to find a solution to FOTA's concerns about new rules if all the teams lodged unconditional entries and signed up for a budget cap - before helping create new regulations.

In the letter sent to Ferrari, McLaren, BMW Sauber, Renault, Red Bull Racing, Toro Rosso, Toyota and Brawn, Mosley said that he wanted to sit down with all the 2010 teams later this month to begin discussions about framing such rules.

To do that, he therefore wanted the FOTA members to confirm by tomorrow that they wanted to compete in 2010 so he could press ahead with his plans.

"Under the International Sporting Code (Art. 66) we cannot now change the published 2010 rules unless we have the consent of all the competitors who have entered," wrote Mosley in the letter, a copy of which has been seen by AUTOSPORT. "However once we have a list of confirmed entries, we can make changes provided we have the necessary unanimous agreement.

"You therefore have the option of participating in this process as a confirmed entrant, or not. In order to participate, you should now write to us confirming that your entry is unconditional.

"It is of course up to you, but the simplest way to ensure that all entrants run under the same rules would be if everyone entered under the cost-cap rules as published and then all entrants cooperated to agree modifications to those rules which would make the proposition workable for all parties."

The FIA is due to announce its 2010 F1 entry list on Friday, with Williams and Force India having already lodged unconditional entries - and at least 10 other new teams vying for a spot.

Mosley made it clear to FOTA's members that any rule changes had to be made in cooperation with any new outfits who made it onto the grid.

"We plan to arrange a meeting of all the confirmed 2010 teams immediately after 12 June in order to discuss the cost saving measures that have been proposed by the 2009 FOTA teams," he explained.

"We have already canvassed the views of some of the likely new entrants regarding the proposed measures and the feedback is broadly positive so a solution should be relatively simple to achieve.

"To this end, if you do intend to enter, it would be helpful if you would let us have drafts of the precise rules you wish adopted, as much of the Enclosure 3 submitted by FOTA on behalf of the 2009 teams is currently in the form of minutes and statements of intent rather than the clear rules which you [and we] seek.

"We look forward to a positive response. It would be helpful to have this no later than close of business on Tuesday 9 June."

As part of the conditions of the team's entries to next year's championship, FOTA had demanded that a new Concorde Agreement be signed by June 11 - just 24 hours before the entry list is lodged.

Mosley has made it clear that such a scenario is impossible - especially because it will be necessary for all the 2010 teams to sign such an agreement.

"As explained at both our recent meetings, the FIA is willing to enter into a Concorde Agreement dealing with all questions of governance and rule stability along the traditional lines first established in 1981," Mosley continued in his letter.

"The Agreement was renewed in 1998 to the satisfaction of all currently competing teams and renewed again in 2005 by us to the satisfaction of Ferrari and, we understand, by FOM to the satisfaction of a number of teams including Williams.

"We are ready to begin discussions immediately with a view to signing an agreement without delay. However, there is no possibility of this being concluded in advance of settling the 2010 entry list, a draft of several hundred pages having been produced at the last moment.

"Also, the FIA will need to know who to discuss the draft with. There will certainly be new teams in 2010 and it presently seems unlikely that all of the 2009 teams will participate in 2010. Obviously the draft should be discussed between those that will participate only."

This week in "As Formula 1 Turns"...

[Nacho]

This week in "As Formula 1 Turns"...

Somehow, i doubt all the new teams that are only there due to the budget cap will agree to drop the budget cap....

[MrHahn]

Somehow, i doubt all the new teams that are only there due to the budget cap will agree to drop the budget cap....

This is turning into a major clusterfuck and if Mosley goes with the new teams instead of retaining the current teams - half the world will be livid.

Who wants to see Cut-com or Interslice racing?

Also has anyone worked out who their drivers will be? I can see this field being filled with 18 yr old randoms

[vietlol]

JV back in F1

[chiuey]

JV back in F1

that's more than enough reason to stop watching F1 all together.

[vietlol]

that's more than enough reason to stop watching F1 all together.

u mad?

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

design nick's helmet contest:

http://www.nickheidfeld.com/?5341A0A1

[_R_]

You know...
If the "real" F1 teams leave F1 and all these budget teams come in, I don't think I'll watch, cause it's not F1, it's a GP something or other...
Also, if the "real" F1 teams branch off and start their own series, I still won't watch, cause it's not F1...

it's a lose lose

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

You know...
If the "real" F1 teams leave F1 and all these budget teams come in, I don't think I'll watch, cause it's not F1, it's a GP something or other...
Also, if the "real" F1 teams branch off and start their own series, I still won't watch, cause it's not F1...

it's a lose lose

i think i could get behind a breakaway series as long as the fundamentals of f1 are still there (top manufacturers and top drivers in the fastest and most advanced cars)

plus an added benefit of no mad max and old man berns

[_R_]

It was recently reported that FIA President Max Mosley himself suggested to the Formula One Teams Association that, in view of their strong protest against the implementation of the 2010 budget capping regulations adopted by the sport's governing body, they should file their entries in next year's championship with conditions attached to their entry forms.

It now appears that Mosley is suggesting they do exactly the contrary, claiming that it is only once the FOTA members unconditionally present their entries for the 2010 season that they may then work on changing the rules, Autosport revealed.

Mosley's position is that, while the FOTA teams continue to strongly oppose the measures adopted by the FIA (which would see annual budgets radically slashed to €45m (US $62m), an amount not including certain salaries and marketing considerations), the 'rebel' teams should accept the 2010 rules as they stand before lobbying for any amendments.

"Under the International Sporting Code (Art. 66) we cannot now change the published 2010 rules unless we have the consent of all the competitors who have entered," Mosley stated in a letter sent to the eight FOTA members: Ferrari, Toyota, Renault, McLaren, BMW, Brawn, Red Bull and Toro Rosso.

"However once we have a list of confirmed entries, we can make changes provided we have the necessary unanimous agreement," he added.

"You therefore have the option of participating in this process as a confirmed entrant, or not," Mosley's letter reads. "In order to participate, you should now write to us confirming that your entry is unconditional."

"It is of course up to you, but the simplest way to ensure that all entrants run under the same rules would be if everyone entered under the cost-cap rules as published and then all entrants cooperated to agree modifications to those rules which would make the proposition workable for all parties," Mosley wrote.

To date only two teams currently active in F1 have signed up for the 2010 season: Williams did so after explaining that they cannot risk being pushed out of their core business, while Force India claimed contractual obligations with their sponsors. Both were quickly expelled from FOTA.

As FIA President Mosley pointed out, any changes to the regulations require unanimous agreement between all confirmed teams, yet the majority of the near-dozen potential new entrants hoping to enter F1 filed their entries because the radical cuts in permitted team budgets made it possible for them to do so in the first place.

Therefore the FOTA members might very well sign up, but they have absolutely no guarantees that their demands will be accepted by the new entrants who surely have no wish if seeing the budget roof raised higher.


Nonetheless, Mosley believes that amending the 2010 regulations "should be relatively simple to achieve."

The FIA is scheduled to publish the list of teams participating in the 2010 championship by this Friday, June 12th. In addition to requesting that their amendment demands be accepted before that date, the FOTA members also petitioned for an updated Concorde Agreement.

"As explained at both our recent meetings, the FIA is willing to enter into a Concorde Agreement dealing with all questions of governance and rule stability along the traditional lines first established in 1981," Mosley indicated, however adding: "There is no possibility of this being concluded in advance of settling the 2010 entry list, a draft of several hundred pages having been produced at the last moment."

Mosley continued by indicating that Concorde Agreement negotiations should only take place with teams participating in the 2010 season, therefore making the publishing of next year's entry list a requirement to any further talks.

"We plan to arrange a meeting of all the confirmed 2010 teams immediately after 12 June in order to discuss the cost saving measures that have been proposed by the 2009 FOTA teams," the FIA President informed.

As he invited the eight contesting teams to sign up, Mosley commented: "We look forward to a positive response."

He then gave the FOTA alliance a short deadline: "It would be helpful to have this no later than close of business on Tuesday 9 June."

The Formula One Teams Association will undoubtedly respond on Tuesday, but after fighting back with such energy, sending in unconditional entries - with no assurances that the 2010 regulations will be amended to feature their demands - seems improbable.

It was reported earlier on Monday that the eight FOTA teams have been looking into the possibility of setting up their own series, while drivers – including Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa – have openly rejected the new regulations imposed by the FIA.

During the Turkish Grand Prix weekend, all drivers working with FOTA members announced their intention of following their teams out of Formula One if such was the outcome of the crisis.

For the time being, this week will surely see many reactions from all parties involved.

This is almost like the first practice session of the season...
the build up on how this ends is

[Robert]

just hypothetically....
If the FOTA breaks away as speculated it will be awesome to watch their cars lap 2+ seconds faster than the 2010 spec cars on a shared track.

[Robert]

First Pictures of 2010 spec car

[More&Faster]

SLOW NICK

[MrHahn]

that's more than enough reason to stop watching F1 all together.