Jump to content

F1 Crew 2009 Season Thread


  • Please log in to reply
2253 replies to this topic

#876 Redliner

Redliner

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,169 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the kerbs

Posted 09 June 2009 - 08:28 PM

BTW - i'm impressed w/ Brawn for holding out w/ the FOTA, even though racing is their business (like Williams & McLaren)...

As we speak tho, a letter has been sent back to Mosley. Godspeed FOTA :eek5:

OTA teams have responded to Mosley
Rebel teams remain quiet on details
09/06/09 20:48




Zoom
FOTA members set to meet on Wednesday

On Monday FIA President Max Mosley invited the eight 'rebel' Formula One teams to unconditionally register for the 2010 championship, despite their strong opposition to the budget-capping measures contained in next year's regulations.

Mosley explained that the Formula One Teams Association members could only negotiate amendments to the regulations once they had confirmed their entries, but he also pointed out that a unanimous agreement between all F1 teams - and not just FOTA members - would be required before any amendments were adopted.

Obviously such negotiations are not a guarantee of success for the FOTA teams, but they would nonetheless have signed up for the 2010 championship.

After writing to them late on Monday, FIA President Mosley requested a response from the eight FOTA teams "no later than close of business on Tuesday 9 June."

Hints indicated on Tuesday that a letter was being prepared; a Formula One Teams Association spokesperson eventually told Reuters that a response had indeed been sent to Mosley, but did not reveal its content nor any details.



However, a meeting between the eight 'rebel' team bosses has been called for Wednesday, after which information on the FOTA reply to the FIA will surely be available.

What seems clear for the time being is that the teams which currently make up FOTA - Ferrari, Renault, McLaren, Brawn, Toyota, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and BMW - have no wish to unconditionally sign up for the 2010 season.

In addition to team budget matters, the question of the sport's governance remains on the table. An updated Concorde Agreement between the Formula One teams, the commercial rights holder and the FIA as governing body is also a very important part of the deal that FOTA is trying to conclude.

The FIA is scheduled to publish the list of entrants in the 2010 F1 championship this Friday, June 12th. It remains to be seen how things will work out before then.



#877 Robert

Robert

    GP2

  • F1 Crew Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 856 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 June 2009 - 08:30 PM

:eek5:

#878 _R_

_R_

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,849 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 June 2009 - 08:55 PM

As we speak tho, a letter has been sent back to Mosley. Godspeed FOTA :eek5:


wondering what it talks about... no leaks yet :eek3:

#879 _R_

_R_

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,849 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 June 2009 - 09:46 PM

Quick look at the rear diffusers...
Does Ferrari have 2 versions? and why the teeth?

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

And the pure sadness of Turkey...
Posted Image

#880 Robert

Robert

    GP2

  • F1 Crew Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 856 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2009 - 12:02 AM

Quick look at the rear diffusers...

thanks for the pics bruh
the ''teeth' I believe are to help slipstream the air.

#881 Dr. Jimmmah!

Dr. Jimmmah!

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,032 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Jose, CA
  • Interests:Motorsports

Posted 10 June 2009 - 12:32 AM

thanks for the pics bruh
the ''teeth' I believe are to help slipstream the air.

Quite the opposite. The 'teeth' act as vortex generators to delay the stall of the centerline flow (I believe someone already commented in the season thread that McLaren was having centerline stall in the diffuser, so this is not a unique problem). Basically trying to disrupt the flow in a controlled manner to affect the way the air goes over the top face of the diffuser.

Basically a wing (or diffuser) can only turn the flow so much before you get to stall. By adding the 'teeth' they can run higher angles without getting stall, thus generating more downforce. In the end you get more downforce but also more drag (obviously, as you are creating vortices), but with the limited space they're allowed to work with in the diffuser this is the only way forward (making a diffuser larger with lower angles and no vortex generators would give better Lift/Drag ratios, but they can't do that)

http://www.aerospace...ics/q0228.shtml

The purpose of these modifications is to create vortices in a controlled and predictable manner. Vortices are often undesirable because they produce drag, but the vortices these devices create are beneficial since they delay wing stall. Stall occurs when a wing reaches a high enough angle of attack that the airflow separates from its surface. This flow separation results in a rapid loss of lift, and the aircraft may become uncontrollable.

The advantage of wing devices that create vortices is that a vortex adds energy to the airflow and increases its forward momentum. This momentum encourages the airflow to remain attached to the surface of the wing at higher angles of attack than it would otherwise. As a result, the wing is able to continue generating lift in conditions where it would have stalled. This behavior is particularly advantageous on high-performance military aircraft that need to be extremely maneuverable at high angles of attack in combat. The advantage for commercial airliners is increased safety since the plane is less likely to experience a wing stall during critical stages of flight like takeoff and landing.



#882 Robert

Robert

    GP2

  • F1 Crew Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 856 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2009 - 01:12 AM

Quite the opposite. The 'teeth' act as vortex generators to delay the stall of the centerline flow (I believe someone already commented in the season thread that McLaren was having centerline stall in the diffuser, so this is not a unique problem). Basically trying to disrupt the flow in a controlled manner to affect the way the air goes over the top face of the diffuser.

Basically a wing (or diffuser) can only turn the flow so much before you get to stall. By adding the 'teeth' they can run higher angles without getting stall, thus generating more downforce. In the end you get more downforce but also more drag (obviously, as you are creating vortices), but with the limited space they're allowed to work with in the diffuser this is the only way forward (making a diffuser larger with lower angles and no vortex generators would give better Lift/Drag ratios, but they can't do that)

http://www.aerospace...ics/q0228.shtml

Good call Kerozen
That's what I was trying to say.

















:bowdown:

#883 kngrsll

kngrsll

    WDC

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,567 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC, NY
  • Interests:F1, racing, women, steak, running, cycling.

Posted 10 June 2009 - 01:46 AM

they are really for eating any competitors cars who try to drive into the back of them, amirite? :bowdown:

#884 Robert

Robert

    GP2

  • F1 Crew Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 856 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2009 - 02:47 AM

they are really for eating any competitors cars who try to drive into the back of them, amirite? :bowdown:

They are used on Kimi's car only to act as drag and give Massa a chance.
or for eating cars, yes urite.

#885 Dazed1

Dazed1

    Formula 3

  • F1 Crew Member
  • PipPip
  • 159 posts

Posted 10 June 2009 - 04:04 PM

Ferrari's rear looks like Darth Vader.

They'll tell mad max, "I AM YOUR FATHER! GIVE IN TO ME! "

#886 _R_

_R_

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,849 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2009 - 04:05 PM

and some news in short

• For a third straight year, Schumacher will team up with young countryman Sebastian Vettel at the Race of Champions event, which this November is to take place for the first time at Beijing's Bird's Nest stadium.

• Fernando Alonso will travel to Rotterdam in mid August to drive his Renault across the Willemsbrug bridge for the Bavaria City Racing event.

• FIA president Max Mosley's 39-year-old son Alexander died at his London home of cocaine intoxication last month, the Westminster coroner declared at an inquest on Wednesday.

• At the Nurburgring F1 race next month, Nick Heidfeld will wear a helmet livery designed by one of his fans in a competition. Afterwards, it will be auctioned for charity.

• Niki Lauda admitted during an interview with Germany's Zeit published Wednesday that an advertiser currently pays €1.2m for the space on his famous red cap. He said the very first deal for his cap, worn to disguise the scalp damage caused by his fiery 1976 crash, was for €100,000.



#887 _R_

_R_

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,849 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2009 - 06:40 PM

During an audition before France's National Assembly held on Wednesday, the CEO of car manufacturer Renault spoke strongly against the current state of revenue sharing in Formula One.

Speaking of Renault and the other manufacturers with established Formula One teams, Carlos Ghosn declared: "We are the ones doing the show, who bring in the technology, who bring in the engines, who hire the drivers. And if we do the show, the revenues of Formula One must come back to us."

Echoing the demands of the eight Formula One Teams Association members (Renault, Toyota, Ferrari, BMW, McLaren, Brawn, Red Bull and Toro Rosso), AFP reported Ghosn as insiting that the regulations should be amended in order to ensure that the "principal beneficiaries" be those who create the attraction.

Currently the commercial rights holder keeps a majority portion of the revenue, with the rest allocated between the teams.

The Renault CEO also underlined the need for additional manufacturers to enter the sport, and further criticised the sums collected in order to participate in F1.

"Today we pay to be in Formula One; that is not normal," Ghosn said. "Intermediaries have made enough money with this. We want to take back control of Formula One."

In light of the ongoing talks between the FOTA alliance and the FIA regarding next year's controversial regulations, Ghosn made Renault's position clear.

"We want the same rules for everyone," he stated. "Accepting different rules depending on the constructor is out of the question."


Ghosn... fuck yeah :bowdown:

#888 DrDickAction

DrDickAction

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,867 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oakland, CA

Posted 10 June 2009 - 07:41 PM

Ghosn... fuck yeah :bowdown:

:eek3:

literally had this on my clipboard to ctrl-v it. :rofl:

But seriously...my 2 biggest mancrushes are Carlos Goshn and Jeremy Clarkson. :hs:

#889 DrDickAction

DrDickAction

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,867 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oakland, CA

Posted 10 June 2009 - 07:45 PM

they are really for eating any competitors cars who try to drive into the back of them, amirite? :bowdown:

Kerozen has lost it, the teeth are obviously some sort of Kubica repellent.

#890 Dr. Jimmmah!

Dr. Jimmmah!

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,032 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Jose, CA
  • Interests:Motorsports

Posted 10 June 2009 - 08:44 PM

Kerozen has lost it, the teeth are obviously some sort of Kubica repellent.

:rofl: I'm contemplating to put a grill on the miata + spray paint on some Domokun teeth on there so my car can eat Cubicle too.

#891 _R_

_R_

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,849 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2009 - 08:53 PM

:rofl: I'm contemplating to put a grill on the miata + spray paint on some Domokun teeth on there so my car can eat Cubicle too.


Posted Image

$39

#892 Dr. Jimmmah!

Dr. Jimmmah!

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,032 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Jose, CA
  • Interests:Motorsports

Posted 10 June 2009 - 09:04 PM

Posted Image

$39

too many little teef.

i was thinking something like this.. maybe without the red since my car is red..

Posted Image

and also those are inserts, so that would definitely mess with cooling quite a bit.. i'd probably just buy a black mesh grille and mask off + spray paint it.

#893 Redliner

Redliner

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,169 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the kerbs

Posted 10 June 2009 - 09:06 PM

too many little teef.

i was thinking something like this.. maybe without the red since my car is red..

Posted Image


Aww. How cute...



:rofl:

#894 Dr. Jimmmah!

Dr. Jimmmah!

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,032 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Jose, CA
  • Interests:Motorsports

Posted 10 June 2009 - 09:08 PM

Aww. How cute...



:rofl:

Posted Image

ok enough diversion.. back on topic...

anyone read damon hill's view on the current f1 debacle?
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/75991

#895 DrDickAction

DrDickAction

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,867 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oakland, CA

Posted 10 June 2009 - 09:09 PM

:rofl: I'm contemplating to put a grill on the miata + spray paint on some Domokun teeth on there so my car can eat Cubicle too.

I'm liking this idae A LOT.

You gotta paint it brown though.

Posted Image

#896 Dr. Jimmmah!

Dr. Jimmmah!

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,032 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Jose, CA
  • Interests:Motorsports

Posted 10 June 2009 - 09:24 PM

Lotus company not behind 'Team Lotus'

By Mark Glendenning Wednesday, June 10th 2009, 19:49 GMT

Group Lotus plc and its subsidiary Lotus Cars Limited have moved to distance themselves from the recently-announced "Team Lotus" that has submitted an entry for the 2010 Formula 1 world championship, and signaled that they are prepared to take action to protect the Lotus brand name.

British Formula 3 squad Litespeed, which was founded by former Lotus employees Nino Judge and Steve Kenchington, announced last week that it wished to enter F1 next year under the Lotus banner.

Permission to use the Lotus name had apparently been granted by rights-holder David Hunt, however the Lotus company challenged that in a statement released today.

"Group Lotus plc and its subsidiary Lotus Cars Limited, the manufacturer of the legendary Lotus Elise and global high technology engineering consultancy, are not connected or affiliated to, nor in any other way associated with the newly-announced 'Team Lotus' that has submitted an entry 2010 Formula 1 championship," the statement said.

"Group Lotus plc will take all necessary steps to protect its name, reputation and brand image."

The news follows a similar statement issued by the Brabham family last week indicating that it intended to challenge Formtech's plans to enter F1 using its name.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/75997

:rofl: Nobody wants to be associated with these new POS teams..

#897 kngrsll

kngrsll

    WDC

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,567 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC, NY
  • Interests:F1, racing, women, steak, running, cycling.

Posted 10 June 2009 - 09:33 PM

:rofl:

literally had this on my clipboard to ctrl-v it. :hs:

But seriously...my 2 biggest mancrushes are Carlos Goshn and Jeremy Clarkson. :love:


:werd:

#898 _R_

_R_

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,849 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 June 2009 - 03:23 PM

Tons of news today...

The Lotus Cars company has followed the Brabham family in distancing itself and threatening legal action against a proposed Formula One team bearing its name.

It emerged last week that 'Team Lotus' could return to the grid next year in the form of British F3 team Litespeed, who said they were granted permission to use the name from rights holder David Hunt.

Hunt, who bought Team Lotus from the bankrupt outfit at the end of 1994, is the brother of the 1976 world champion James Hunt.

However, Lotus Cars Limited, the ongoing sports car maker that is based on the company founded by Colin Chapman in 1952, clarified on Wednesday that it is in no way associated with the prospective 2010 team.

"Group Lotus plc will take all necessary steps to protect its name, reputation and brand image," it said in a statement.


There was more bad news for a 2010 F1 hopeful on Wednesday, when it was rumoured that Superfund, the Austrian investment company, may have been struck off the FIA's list due to the emergence of an unpaid debt relating to motor racing of nearly 4m Euros.


Renault has warned its suppliers that it may not be racing in Formula One beyond the 2009 season.

At the same time as that news emerged on Wednesday, the French carmaker's CEO Carlos Ghosn was aiming fire not at the controversial budget cap rules for 2010, but at the distribution of income.

According to AFP, he told a French parliamentary committee that because the teams ‘make the show’ in F1, they should be the ones benefiting ‘principally from it’.

Until now, while issues of governance have been playing a role in the dispute with Max Mosley, it was believed that the teams' threats to quit Formula One were based primarily on their distaste for the new regulations.

But Ghosn said: "It is us who make the show, who bring the technology, the engines, who engage the pilots, so if we make the show, it is necessary that the income returns to us."

Germany's motorsport-total.com, meanwhile, revealed that external suppliers of Renault's Enstone-based team received a letter early this week warning that the outfit's participation in the sport beyond 2009 cannot be guaranteed, suggesting that they look elsewhere for business.


“Renault Sport can no longer be sure of its long-term business outlook in the face of these challenges,” the letter read. “Renault Sport must not only substantially reduce its activity, budget and therefore its list of suppliers, but may even decide, in the worst case scenario, as mentioned by Bernard Rey and Flavio Briatore in 13 May, not to compete in the Formula 1 World Championship in 2010.”

“Given this context and in the interests of offsetting any possible drop in business volumes on our part for you firm, it is your prerogative to adopt whatever measures you see fit to ensure the continuity of your business, such as commencing a search for alternative clients, other markets or diversifying.”

It was also reported on Wednesday that Toyota's currently Cologne-based Team Principal Tadashi Yamashina is set to relocate the position to Japan and commute to races.


As the final 24 hours until the publication of the 2010 entry list beckons, the eight rebel Formula One teams known collectively as FOTA met once again in London.

"I still believe that a reasonable solution can be found," Mercedes-Benz's Norbert Haug is quoted as saying by Germany's DPA news agency.

The current state of affairs as FOTA met on Wednesday was the ongoing stalemate between the body and the FIA, led by a seemingly equally obstinate Max Mosley.

Mosley wrote to FOTA this week, requesting that the unconditional status of the FOTA teams' entries be dropped, and McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh suggested to Auto Motor und Sport that the association's reply was ‘very constructive’.

However, Mosley's demands were not met, raising the prospect that marquee names including Ferrari and McLaren will be left off the entry list when it is published on Friday.

But speculation suggests that, due to existing (albeit disputed) agreements, Ferrari and the Red Bull teams might actually be named on the FIA's June 12th document.

The possibility led Ferrari's Stefano Domenicali to issue a media statement late Wednesday, insisting that if a compromise with the FIA is not reached imminently then Ferrari cannot be confirmed on the list of confirmed 2010 teams.

“Ferrari’s position has not changed," he said. "Back on 29 May, we put in a conditional entry with the other teams that make up FOTA. Along with this entry, we put forward to the FIA a package of proposals which included among other elements, a significant reduction in costs.
As always, we will do all we can to find a solution that is acceptable to all parties."

"If this is not possible, then the FIA will not be able to include Ferrari in the list of teams entered for the 2010 FIA Formula 1 World Championship," he concluded.

Although it is more than seven months until the first race of next season, there is a risk that June 12th could be the day on which a split became inevitable.

"If ten (non-FOTA) teams are given an entry there's a major problem," Ross Brawn said in Turkey last week. "So I hope – even if it's a holding position until we can sort this out – I hope there's a solution."

Domenicali agreed: "If you want to be sensible you can discuss whatever you want up until next year. But we need to find a solution as soon as possible."

It is arguable in whose court the ball currently lies, but as it is the FIA President who proposes revolutionising the rules, Italy's La Stampa newspaper observes: "Mr Mosley risks passing into history as the man who destroyed Formula One."


In what is no doubt an eleventh-hour effort to stave off the possibility of a breaway championship, Max Mosley is meeting with the FOTA members in London on Thursday as the F1 world waits for the outcome.

Less than 24 hours before the FIA publishes the entry list for the 2010 World Championship, a standoff that saw the eight 'rebel' teams lodge only conditional entries by the recent deadline is still yet to be resolved.

The Formula One Teams Association, whose expelled members Williams and Force India broke ranks and signed up unconditionally for next year's season, met in London also on Wednesday.

The remaining FOTA members, comprising Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, Toyota, BMW, Brawn, Red Bull and Toro Rosso, do not accept FIA President Mosley's budget cap plans, and also want a new Concorde Agreement signed immediately.

The danger of Friday's entry list is that it could lock the rebel teams out of Formula One, pushing them into following through with their threat to set up a rival series.


Mosley this week urged the FOTA teams to drop the conditional status of their entries before Friday, and we reported on Wednesday that the Briton also wrote a separate letter to Ferrari.

It emerges that, in the letter, Mosley softened his stance in several areas, including agreeing to taper the cap from 100m to 45m euros over the 2010-2011 period, agreeing to shortly sign a new Concorde Agreement, and - believed to be at the teams' behest - renaming the budget cap provisions to "financial regulations."

He also confirmed speculation that another highly-paid employee per team, for example Red Bull's car designer Adrian Newey, can be left outside the cap.


Christian Horner on Thursday flatly denied rumours that the two Red Bull teams have broken ranks and signed up unconditionally for next year's Formula One world championship.

Like fellow independents Williams and Force India, who have already lodged their paperwork and will appear on Friday's FIA entry list, Red Bull and Brawn GP are not subject to the same $50m bond that is holding together the unity of the remainder of the FOTA group.

Williams and Force India were expelled from the Formula One Teams Association, but the defection of Red Bull Racing and Toro Rosso would leave the alliance weakened with just six members: the major car manufacturers plus the dominant Brawn GP quad.

Red Bull mogul Dietrich Mateschitz's loyalty to FOTA has been questioned from the very beginning of the dispute with Max Mosley, as he is a close personal friend of the FIA President.

But Horner, Team Principal of Mateschitz's senior F1 team, shot down the speculation, telling motorsport-total.com that it is ‘not true at all’.

However, it remains possible that the Red Bull outfits - as well as Ferrari - will be listed along with Williams and Force India on the FIA entry list, due to the teams' apparent contractual arrangements with the sport's ruling bodies.


Looks like the FOTA is holding their ground so far and the FIA was expecting them to fold at this point...
even if the FOTA is bluffing... they are holding their cards pretty close to their chest and making Max and co. sweat a bit

#899 DrDickAction

DrDickAction

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Elite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,867 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oakland, CA

Posted 11 June 2009 - 03:46 PM

What are the odds that this is all staged/WWE style drama just to spice up a boring ass season?

#900 Dr. Jimmmah!

Dr. Jimmmah!

    F1 Legend

  • F1 Crew Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,032 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Jose, CA
  • Interests:Motorsports

Posted 11 June 2009 - 03:48 PM

Tons of news today...











Looks like the FOTA is holding their ground so far and the FIA was expecting them to fold at this point...
even if the FOTA is bluffing... they are holding their cards pretty close to their chest and making Max and co. sweat a bit


When you live in hell nothing on this green Earth makes you sweat.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users