2253 replies to this topic

[Ximian]

In an ideal world I could see the FOTA owning the F1 trademark..

And Ecclestone wouldn't have a thousand year reich on broadcasting rights

[tefnut]

Does anyone really think the alliance between the manfs. will remain as strong when they're racing against each other?

How much mud was thrown around over the double-diffuser? I have a feeling it will get pretty damn ugly... Oh how I wish we were talking about double-diffusers again

sheeet, that's a good point

[yonson]

None of them use their shift key consistently, and I hate them for it.

wahhhh quit yer whining toyota boy




































Shift Key and punctuations not used for effect

[yonson]

oh yeah, petition to name the new series GP1...

Dunno if this has been posted yet, but that fucktard Bernie owns the rights to the GP1 name...

[Skyliner]

wahhhh quit yer whining toyota boy
Shift Key and punctuations not used for effect

Real conservatives used their shift keys.

Doesn't Keith Olbermann teach you about those?

[yonson]

Honestly my point of view is I'm rooting for FOTA1 to work and for people to support a new series rather than FOTA/F1 to reconciliate at this point. Let me explain why:


If F1/FOTA resolve their quams about the budget/2-tier system and go back together, we (N. America) are still left without a race, and ticket prices will still be extortionately expensive (remember what we were paying for at IMS was a giant bargain compared to the rest of the world). By forming a new series we have a chance of removing the two key figures that have been plaguing F1, Max and Bernie. This is probably the closest shot we have of getting a race back in N. America in the near future.

Hopefully these guys have the foresight to recognize that the President of any organization needs to be elected and have to have re-elections/maximum term lengths. Also, since a large portion of the manufacturers target market for sales will be North America it could mean no more 'odd hours' races such as twilight races just to cater an European audience when this is a World Championship.

By starting from scratch they can move forward into the 21st century on the broadcast/publicity front instead of antiquated technology/ideologies that Bernie seems to be so unwilling to part with, such as Hi-Def broadcasts and more access for fans without charging for ridiculously expensive 'Paddock club' passes, subscription-based online access to race feeds, etc.

And of course without money grubbing Bernie deciding which government will pay him more to have the F1 brand in their country we might actually get to see some racing circuits being chosen because they offer better racing action, rather than endless street parade after another (Monaco, Singapore, Valencia, Abu Dhabi, Korea and Rome expect to be featured on the F1 calender by 2011. There is NO NEED for six street circuits in a season).

Even if it takes a year for this series to take off, the prospect of a manufacturer-run series, where their interests in showing off their brand to the public and creating a spectacle are placed over two individuals who are in it for a) Power, b) Money, would be a benefit to the fan in the end of the day. It's not that long ago that many of you guys said you'd be willing to wait a year without F1 if it were to fix F1 for the long term...

to the 11tyth power...

[yonson]

Real conservatives used their shift keys.

Doesn't Keith Olbermann teach you about those?

Fuck that liberal piece of shit...

[DrDickAction]

Fuck that liberal piece of shit...

Rush's counterweight.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

I know who Limbaugh is because he makes a lot of angry noises (like Jim Cramer) but I have no idea who Olbermann is.. Maybe I need to watch more politics on TV

[DrDickAction]

I know who Limbaugh is because he makes a lot of angry noises (like Jim Cramer) but I have no idea who Olbermann is.. Maybe I need to watch more politics on TV

Nope, no you don't.

[Nacho]

the minor flaw is that is N.America doesn't care much about open wheeled racing or circuit racing... Europe is the main source of $$$...

But N America is still the manufacturer's largest market.

[vietlol]

To get around contractual obligations could/would Ferrari field a really crappy half ass team in F1 using the standard cosworth engine and other parts with their test drivers. Even change the color of the cars so everyone knows its not the real Ferrari. Then field a real effort in the breakaway series?

they could probably just let one of the entered teams use the ferrari name and not even pay for it heh

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

they could probably just let one of the entered teams use the ferrari name and not even pay for it heh

I was telling redliner yesterday that they should plaster their entire car with FOTA1 ads all over, go out there and do the formation lap and pull in a-la Michelingate just to spite the FIA

[mads]

I was telling redliner yesterday that they should plaster their entire car with FOTA1 ads all over, go out there and do the formation lap and pull in a-la Michelingate just to spite the FIA

Brilliant!

[mads]

they could always go Ferrari "technologies" on their ass and just enter the 2010 Fota car under the budget cap

[vietlol]

"It keeps going but obviously with the same engine for everybody, small teams, nobody knows those teams, nobody knows the drivers... So it's like A1GP, GP2, so it's a very nice category but no one cares."

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

I think if anything it will help NASCAR and bring more attention to NASCAR like when the Indycars split.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/76349

Monty thinks people dismayed by F1/FOTA1 will instead watch NASCAR.

[yonson]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/76349

Monty thinks people dismayed by F1/FOTA1 will instead watch NASCAR.

Yeah right!

Ohh wait, I already watch NASCRAP



On another note, I found a killer app for my cell phone, it's called viigo can follow tons of different things including F1 news, RSS feeds etc... on your mobile

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

BMW abandons KERS for good

By Jonathan Noble Saturday, June 20th 2009, 17:22 GMT

BMW Sauber has abandoned its Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) for good, because it thinks it can improve its car performance more without the hybrid technology.

Although the Hinwil-based outfit was alone in vetoing a bid last year to abandon KERS in Formula 1 because it felt the technology was vital for the sport, it confirmed at Silverstone on Saturday that it was shelving its system.

The team only raced with KERS in the first four races of the season, and has not run it since the Bahrain Grand Prix after choosing to instead focus on aerodynamic developments on its car that were introduced in Spain.

BMW motorsport director Mario Theissen said the team had spent the last few weeks evaluating whether or not to press on with KERS, but in the end opted to ditch it.

"We evaluated different alleys, proceeding with KERS or proceeding on the aero side and what could we do with no KERS on board," he explained.

"We had made some significant progress on the aero side which does not allow to fit KERS, and we have taken a decision just a few days ago to no more run KERS this year because we see a more promising alley in developing the aero."

With only the two Ferrari cars running with KERS at the British Grand Prix, there have been suggestions that the introduction of the technology was a flop.

But Theissen insists that some benefit has come inside his car company thanks to the efforts put into the F1 project.

"I would not say the technology is a flop, just the opposite," he said. "Given the very short development time it has been a huge success to get it up and running reliably and our system really works fine. We didn't have any flaws, not even in Malaysia in the torrential rain. It is depending on the set of regulations you have.

"If you want to push an innovation then you have to fully focus on it. If it is not mandatory to have the system on board, then now KERS is basically out-performed on the aero side. And I have to say what we have achieved at least within BMW has been transferred already to the road car side.

"Our engineers are currently supporting the road car R&D department and that will continue for quite some time because we have learned an awful lot which is applicable to not just hybrid cars but also electric vehicles and conventional cars, because a battery is on any car."

With the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) having proposed recently for KERS to be dropped next year, there is very little chance of the technology continuing in F1.

Only McLaren and Ferrari are now likely to run it over the remainder of the season.

And Theissen reckons that even if KERS remained an option in the rules, it was almost certainly not one that would be taken up by teams.

"I would say if it isn't made mandatory it will disappear," he said. "That is just natural. It is a pity in my view because this has been a unique chance to really position F1 as a technology carrier, as a pioneer of innovative technology, and it would have been very good in the current economic climate for F1 as a whole."

Dr. Mario needs to be kicked in the balls for making everyone waste millions on a KERS system that they can't even be bothered to run. Way to veto the motion to abandon KERS when everyone else wanted to pull the plug and save money, then to go ahead and pull the plug yourselves

[cASe SenSiTive]

Honestly my point of view is I'm rooting for FOTA1 to work and for people to support a new series rather than FOTA/F1 to reconciliate at this point. Let me explain why:


If F1/FOTA resolve their quams about the budget/2-tier system and go back together, we (N. America) are still left without a race, and ticket prices will still be extortionately expensive (remember what we were paying for at IMS was a giant bargain compared to the rest of the world). By forming a new series we have a chance of removing the two key figures that have been plaguing F1, Max and Bernie. This is probably the closest shot we have of getting a race back in N. America in the near future.

Hopefully these guys have the foresight to recognize that the President of any organization needs to be elected and have to have re-elections/maximum term lengths. Also, since a large portion of the manufacturers target market for sales will be North America it could mean no more 'odd hours' races such as twilight races just to cater an European audience when this is a World Championship.

By starting from scratch they can move forward into the 21st century on the broadcast/publicity front instead of antiquated technology/ideologies that Bernie seems to be so unwilling to part with, such as Hi-Def broadcasts and more access for fans without charging for ridiculously expensive 'Paddock club' passes, subscription-based online access to race feeds, etc.

And of course without money grubbing Bernie deciding which government will pay him more to have the F1 brand in their country we might actually get to see some racing circuits being chosen because they offer better racing action, rather than endless street parade after another (Monaco, Singapore, Valencia, Abu Dhabi, Korea and Rome expect to be featured on the F1 calender by 2011. There is NO NEED for six street circuits in a season).

Even if it takes a year for this series to take off, the prospect of a manufacturer-run series, where their interests in showing off their brand to the public and creating a spectacle are placed over two individuals who are in it for a) Power, b) Money, would be a benefit to the fan in the end of the day. It's not that long ago that many of you guys said you'd be willing to wait a year without F1 if it were to fix F1 for the long term...

I'd love to see them at IMS again too. Especially since Tony George would love to give Bernie a big "fuck you!"

[_R_]

...KERS...there have been suggestions that the introduction of the technology was a flop.

wow no shit

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

FOTA's 'New Formula' eyes 17-race calendar

By GMM - Motorsport.com

Rumours that plans for FOTA's breakaway championship are moving forwards abounded on Sunday.

In the paddock of the Silverstone circuit, even a possible name for the series emerged - 'New Formula' - as well as a potential 17-race 2010 calendar.

Former F1 venues including Buenos Aires, Mexico City, Jerez, Imola, Montreal, Indianapolis, Silverstone, Magny Cours and Adelaide were listed on the theoretical calendar, published by the German news agency SID.

Current tracks were also mentioned: Monaco, Silverstone, Monza, Abu Dhabi, Singapore and Suzuka, while potential new venues are Jerez, Portimao, the Lausitzring, Surfer's Paradise (Australia) and even the Finnish capital Helsinki.

But while some suggest that F1 chief executive Bernie Ecclestone is moving towards the rebel team's plans, he told Britain's Daily Star newspaper on Sunday that he fears for the breakaway.

Despite earlier sympathising with the teams' dislike of the proposed budget cap, he now believes unfettered spending "could be the curse of our sport".

"It could ruin it. It would be a disaster and they'd destroy the sport," he said.

"I would hate to see any kind of takeover happen because it would be badly managed. They can't even run their own teams. They can't agree on anything. If the teams owned it they would destroy it," Ecclestone, 78, added.

He also scoffed at the leaked FOTA calendar, wondering how the body can compete with the structure operated by his businesses.

"We organise the venues which don't cost the teams a penny," said Ecclestone. "I reckon Ferrari and McLaren need us more than we need them.

"All they have to do is pitch up at a track with their sponsors' names all over their cars in exchange for millions of quid and race in front of a worldwide television audience -- which I have set up and keep going.

"The bottom line is they can't afford to set up a rival championship," he added.

http://www.totalf1.c...7race_calendar/



4 races in the Americas would be

[_R_]

On a day when Sky Italia took a poll during their broadcast of the British Grand Prix which found an astonishing 91 percent of viewers supported the Formula One Teams' Association stance, Max Mosley said the FIA will not proceed with legal action against the FOTA members, indicating he would rather reach a deal to stave off the threat of a breakaway championship.

"There won't be any writ. I think we would rather talk than litigate," the President of the Paris-based body said before walking the Silverstone grid.

Mosley, who in an earlier interview this weekend dismissed the FOTA figureheads like ‘the Bernie’ Flavio Briatore as ‘loonies’, claims there is actually very little the teams and the FIA is arguing about.

He invited the disgruntled rebel teams to "sit down and iron out the last few difficulties."

"It's definitely getting better - but these things take time," he explained. "The problem is we have eight teams and some want to sit down, some don't. No doubt, eventually they all will."

He agrees with Martin Whitmarsh that time is a factor, after the McLaren boss said preparations for the breakaway will be too far advanced by the end of July.

"If this goes on for any length of time, it damages the teams. It doesn't affect the FIA, it damages the teams because it affects their sponsors," said Mosley.

Bernie Ecclestone said he was pleased to hear about Mosley's comments.

"If Max says (a deal) is close, then that's good," the F1 Chief Executive said.

yeap, Max is right, losing 8 of the major teams in F1 won't hurt the FIA... that's why they're suing them... oh wait... now they want to talk...

[DrDickAction]

Max is unbelievably stuffed full of shit...it must actually be pressurized. I bet if one of those hooker whips had broken the skin there would have feces geyser...and it would've sounded like 'PPPFFLLLLLLLLLLLLTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...I don't know how 8 of the worlds largest companies could organize a 17 race calendar...SSSSSSHHHHHLLLLORRRRRRRPPPPPPPPTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

[_R_]

The reasons that prompted the Formula One Teams' Association's sudden announcement that it was to press ahead with its 'breakaway' threat are starting to become clearer, with rumours in the F1 paddock that an eleventh-hour switch from FIA President Max Mosley was the catalyst for the move.

Shortly after midnight on Thursday night, FOTA sent out a statement that following a breakdown in communication with the governing body, it intended to follow through with its menace of organising its own separate championship, well away from Mosley's controversial jurisdiction.

According to the BBC, a compromise deal had been struck in principle 24 hours earlier that would have seen all eight of the rebel teams agree to sign up to compete in the top flight in 2010, but when the paperwork was received the following morning, it is understood that Mosley had changed the date until which they had to pledge their commitment from 2012 to 2014 – what is believed to have been the final straw that broke the camel's back and lit the blue touch paper for the decision to withdraw en masse.

Following further discussions at Renault's F1 headquarters at Enstone in Oxfordshire during the course of Thursday, the resolution to split was made – with increasing unease at the autocratic and almost arbitrary manner in which Mosley is ruling the sport, and the feeling that the only way the dissenters can be tempted back into the fray would be if the Englishman were to resign from the most powerful and influential post in international motor racing. However, that is something with which the latter seems far from willing to comply, hinting that in the midst of a crisis, the last thing he would do is step down.

Moreover, there is anger at the tone of the string of press releases issued by the FIA late last week, which tended to depict the governing body as the goodies, and FOTA as the baddies – something the teams argue is at best a flagrant misrepresentation, at worst a blatant lie.

It is believed that FOTA and Ferrari President Luca di Montezemolo – a man who has become a sworn enemy of Mosley's in recent weeks – will endeavour to undermine the 69-year-old's authority at Wednesday's reunion of the FIA World Motor Sport Council (WMSC), but in the meantime discussions continue, despite the outward finality of FOTA's announcement.

Chief FIA steward Alan Donnelly – Mosley's right-hand man, and one unpopular amongst many of the teams – met with team principals Stefano Domenicali (Ferrari), John Howett (Toyota), Ross Brawn (Brawn GP) and Christian Horner (Red Bull Racing) in the Silverstone paddock on Sunday morning in an effort to try to find some common ground. Mosley has suggested that those four teams are the most receptive to his proposals, contentiously dismissing the other four members – Renault, McLaren-Mercedes, BMW-Sauber and Scuderia Toro Rosso – as 'loonies'. The problem for the teams is that they have no guarantee that the FIA President will do as he promises.

Even in the areas where he is willing to make concessions, indeed, it seems there are issues, with suggestions that the uncapped teams would be unfairly penalised in relation to their capped rivals running customer Cosworth engines. Whilst the free-spending competitors would be restricted to 18,000rpm as per the existing 2009 regulations, the Cosworth powerplant would not be subject to a rev limit, with Mosley having argued in a letter that 'any engineer will confirm that this will not give the relevant teams any competitive advantage whatsoever' – a contention that has been rubbished by those in the know.

According to the BBC, the Cosworth-powered cars would be quicker in qualifying – with ten per cent extra power equating to in excess of 70bhp more than their adversaries – but slower in the initial stages of a grand prix due to their higher-revving engines requiring more fuel as a result of the 2010 ban on refuelling. That could lead to situations where the Cosworth cars might hold up the rev-limited machines early on in the race, before picking up pace as the fuel burns off – leading to a clear advantage for the cost-capped teams.

couple interesting points...