1381 replies to this topic

[Robert]

mclaren resorting to flow visualization paint leads me to think they're really having a lot of problems with their aero and not just sandbagging. why else would you want to basically show your aero flow data off to the competitors, unless you were behind on development, strapped for time and had limited wind tunnel hours.

You may be right, it certainly seems suspicious.

[shallow777]

One of the advantages a team like Ferrari and McLaren have is the ability to develop the car faster than others not just before the season but during the season. That is why teams like Williams can look strong at the first race but then fall off quickly as the season progresses.

With the new testing rules and the new aero rules it will be really interesting to see if the other teams can keep up with the big boys this year not just in the beginning but in the home stretch too.

I am so looking forward to the season and I hope it is as exciting as it promises to be.

[_R_]

Testing is one thing and racing is another, but based on the times recorded in Jerez last week and so far at Circuit de Catalunya this week, Formula One could be in for a real shake-up when the season gets underway in Australia.

Jenson Button took over testing duties in the new Brawn Mercedes from Rubens Barrichello today and set the pace a cool second clear of Felipe Massa in the Ferrari. Button completed 130 laps, his fastest time of 1:19.127s coming on his 93rd tour of the day.

To put Button’s pace into perspective, Kimi Raikkonen claimed pole position, albeit with race fuel on board, at the same circuit for the Spanish Grand Prix last year on a 1:21.813 while the fastest lap so far this week was a 1:20.314.

Ross Brawn and his team remarked throughout the off-season that should the team make the grid for the Australian Grand Prix, the then RA109 would be something special. We don’t know the fuel loads but looking at this week's performance and assuming nothing untoward, the BGP001 could well prove to be every bit as good as previous claims. We’ll see in Melbourne...

With Michael Schumacher again watching the progress of the Ferrari team Massa took over the test programme from Kimi Raikkonen and was second fastest in the F60 ahead of Robert Kubica who returned to the BMW Sauber cockpit today.

Timo Glock continued Toyota's impressive pre-season form with the fourth fastest time in the TF109.
Fernando Alonso completed his second day of running in the Renault with the fifth fastest time on a day when team boss Flavio Briatore is reportedly unhappy with some team’s reading of the rules with regard to the rear diffuser.

Sebastian Vettel took over testing duties from Mark Webber and posted the sixth best time in the Red Bull Renault ahead of Nico Rosberg who was back on test duty for the Williams Toyota team.

Giancarlo Fisichella was eighth fastest in the new Force India Mercedes while Sebastien Buemi had his first 'proper' run in the new Ferrari-powered STR4 and was ninth fastest of the ten runners.

While Ron Dennis insists there are no major problems at McLaren Mercedes, Lewis Hamilton languished at the tail of the timesheets for much of the day before going off at turn two, damaging both ends of the so far difficult MP4-24 lightly. This brought out the red flags with about 90 minutes remaining and Hamilton ended the day slowest of all, 2.5 seconds off the ultimate pace.

Jenson Button continued the new Brawn GP team's excellent start by topping the third day of the Barcelona group test.

The British driver's time of 1:19.127 put him a full second clear of his rivals, and he also completed 130 laps - a tally only exceeded by Toyota's Timo Glock and Toro Rosso's Sebastien Buemi.

Button had been fastest for much of Brawn GP's first public test on Monday, before being edged back to fourth place by the end of the day, while his team-mate Rubens Barrichello took third place yesterday.

Felipe Massa was second quickest for Ferrari today, just ahead of Robert Kubica (BMW Sauber). Glock and Renault's Fernando Alonso completed the top five.

McLaren's apparent difficulties continued as world champion Lewis Hamilton brought up the rear of the 10-car field, 2.5 seconds slower than Button, and also had a trip into the gravel during the afternoon.

Today's times:

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Button Brawn-Mercedes (B) 1:19.127 124
2. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:20.168 109
3. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) 1:20.217 109
4. Glock Toyota TF109 (B) 1:20.410 99
5. Alonso Renault R29 (B) 1:20.863 107
6. Vettel Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:21.165 102
7. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:21.324 89
8. Fisichella Force India-Mercedes (B) 1:21.545 97
9. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:21.569 140
10. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:21.657 82

okay... BrawnGP has got to be running low fuel runs... 1 second clear of the field? I don't know if I should be or
and McLaren still at the bottom of the time sheets...

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

okay... BrawnGP has got to be running low fuel runs... 1 second clear of the field? I don't know if I should be or
and McLaren still at the bottom of the time sheets...

BrawnGP needs to secure sponsors if they wish to last more than 1 season. the best way for them to do so right now would be to go out and throw down the gauntlet at every test leading up to melbourne, hopefully sign a big name sponsor long term before some of the top teams stop sandbagging and show their real pace.

i'd expect teams like renault, ferrari, bmw, and in other years mclaren, to be sandbagging at these tests.

of course their pace could be genuine too... they did start the car a few months ahead of everyone else.

it should be an interesting start to the season with potential for 5 or more top teams in early races.

[Nacho]

Brawn GP

And i don't think their pace is that far off what the real pace is, given how it's faster than last year's pole lap time.

[Nacho]

@ Pissy Flavor Flav

Flavio Briatore on Wednesday said he is concerned that ‘at least three teams’ look set to field illegal cars in 2009.

The Renault boss made a surprise visit to the Barcelona test, and was quoted by Italy's La Gazzetta dello Sport as complaining about the interpretation of the rules by some teams in the area of the rear diffuser.

"Apparently there are two rules: one that allows a team to have the diffuser in a certain way, and another that results in (the component's) banning for being illegal. It is not what we expect," Briatore said.

"We want rules that are black and white, the same for everybody," he added.

He was asked if Renault might lodge an official protest ahead of scrutineering in Melbourne later this month.

"At least three teams do not conform to the regulation. I do not want it to end as with the engine freeze, which we respected and found ourselves with 50 horsepower less than the others. Now it is the same old story," Briatore said.

Briatore also warned observers not to read too much into this week's test times. "If you have no sponsors for your car, you come here to make big lap times. Otherwise you focus on the preparation of your machine," he said.

I hope Brawn GP monkey fucks Renault in Melbourne.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

@ Pissy Flavor Flav



I hope Brawn GP monkey fucks Renault in Melbourne.

Dear Mr. Briatore,

If it is such a huge benefit then either lodge an official protest or copy the goddamn design. Also, would you kindly STFU about it otherwise.

Kthxbye.

[F1]

Let's not forget that Brawn has been working on the car for some time now, the majority of which he had the backing of Honda. So while it's surprising to see them so fast, it's not like he's Super Aguri plucking some cars out of an airport display and going racing.

That being said, I wish BrawnGP.com had some merchandise so I could officially hop on this bandwagon before everyone else.

[Nacho]

Let's not forget that Brawn has been working on the car for some time now, the majority of which he had the backing of Honda. So while it's surprising to see them so fast, it's not like he's Super Aguri plucking some cars out of an airport display and going racing.

That being said, I wish BrawnGP.com had some merchandise so I could officially hop on this bandwagon before everyone else.

I'm certainly joining the bandwagon, assuming the merch isn't ludicrously hideous.

[Robert]

Let's not forget that Brawn has been working on the car for some time now, the majority of which he had the backing of Honda. So while it's surprising to see them so fast, it's not like he's Super Aguri plucking some cars out of an airport display and going racing.

Oh shit that just caught me as so funny




someonepostsatopassingalonsolol

[draobpi]

Oh shit that just caught me as so funny




someonepostsatopassingalonsolol

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

you missed a thread.

http://forums.f1-cre...p?showtopic=582

[F1]

23 lap race simulation comparison of Massa vs. Button from yesterday's testing.

Attached Files

•  times.JPG   28.07KB   23 downloads

[_R_]

Renault driver Fernando Alonso believes the Brawn GP team is one of three or four squads who are a step in front of their rivals ahead of the start of the season following its showing in testing.

The team has been impressive in its first public outing at Barcelona this week, with Jenson Button setting the fastest time of the week yesterday with the BGP-001 machine.

Although some suspect the team is running with low fuel to grab the headlines and attract sponsors, Renault driver Alonso thinks Brawn GP's pace is real.

The two-time champion reckons the team is among a group of squads who are a step ahead of their rivals.

"It's hard to judge right now, but Toyota, Ferrari, BMW or Brawn are very fast," Alonso told Spanish media. "The competition is very tough and everybody is working well, with a good progression.

"It's obvious that there are three or four teams ahead of the rest," added Alonso, who believes his own Renault team is not as quick as its rivals.

"I had a lot more doubts last season because the car was not going well. Ferrari, Brawn, or BMW are, right now, unreachable," he was quoted as saying by AS newspaper.

"We have to think that finishing fifth here, with one car per team, means being 10th in a race. There are three or four teams ahead of us. Even so, it's not all about winning in Melbourne because the championship is very long."

Alonso thinks Brawn GP has benefited from having switched its efforts to 2009 earlier than the rest.

"It's not normal that they are so quick in their first tests," he added. "The truth is that they have a car that Honda began working on in 2007 to use in 2009. And that's evident in its design, because it's a very elaborate car, with different shapes than the rest."

Despite his caution about Renault's form, the Spanish driver admitted he feels more optimistic than last year.

"I'm more optimistic that at the same point last year. In 2008 I was not optimistic and, after the first two or three races, I thought I'd spend the rest of the championship as a tourist in the cities where we raced.

"I've always been optimistic, but maybe in the last few weeks there has been an excess of optimism. We are nearly here not there. We were really bad at Portimao and ready to win the title at Jerez. We have to take it one step at the time and if we work well we'll be able to compete in a high level."

[_R_]

Rubens Barrichello set a blistering pace on the final day of testing at Barcelona, as the Brawn GP team completed a dream first week of work at the Spanish circuit.

Barrichello, whose team-mate Jenson Button had topped the times yesterday, went even quicker today, finishing with the best time of the week in the BGP-001 machine, which made its public debut only on Monday.

The Brazilian was the only driver who managed to lap the track in less than one minute and 19 seconds, as he finished over eight tenths ahead of Nico Rosberg in the Williams.

The Brawn GP driver also had a busy day, covering over 100 laps.

The unusual order at the top of the times was completed by Toyota's Timo Glock as third quickest and Sebastian Vettel fourth in the Red Bull machine. Fernando Alonso was fifth fastest in the Renault.

Glock was pleased with his day's work after managed well over 100 laps as Toyota continued to look in good form for Melbourne.

"This was another useful day to round off our good winter of testing," Glock said. "We did more work on set-up and long runs and everything went well until the very last lap! Still, overall the car feels strong and we seem to have good pace so we can look forward to Australia.

"Of course we'll only see the real results on Saturday in Melbourne but everyone at Toyota can be happy with our work so far. We've made fine progress so roll on the first race."

Championship favourites Ferrari, BMW-Sauber and McLaren had to settle with the sixth, seventh, and eighth quickest times of the day thanks to Felipe Massa, Robert Kubica and Lewis Hamilton respectively.

World champion Hamilton had another low-key session and finished nearly two seconds off the pace after 69 laps.

With 141 laps covered, Giancarlo Fisichella was the busiest driver in the Force India car.

Today's times:

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes (B) 1:18.926 110
2. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:19.774 120
3. Glock Toyota (B) 1:20.091 128
4. Vettel Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:20.576 83
5. Alonso Renault (B) 1:20.664 64
6. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:20.677 92
7. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:20.740 134
8. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:20.869 70
9. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:21.013 62
10. Fisichella Force India-Mercedes (B) 1:21.045 141
11. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:21.629 27

BrawnGP 2 seconds faster then McLaren using the same power plant... where did BrawnGP come from... sweet jesus
Melbourne needs to hurry up to really see who stands where... these tests times are just too insane...

[DrDickAction]

Wow...could they actually be for real? I'm starting to believe.

[Redliner]

Wow...could they actually be for real? I'm starting to believe.

In Brawn I Trust!

I bet Honda is kicking themselves right now...

[_R_]

Apparently yesterday Button ran a race simulation with pit stops and all that jazz...
and they've been running a shit ton of laps every day... they can't just be loading up enough for 5-6 laps then coming in for more fuel... that just wouldn't make sense...

at the same time, those times are basically a second clear of the field... which still doesn't make sense...

either BrawnGP is bluffing the shit out of everything or they really are that quick...

[_R_]

more

The final day of the group test at Circuit de Catalunya was briefly delayed this morning due to the foggy conditions. The ten runners were however soon out on the 4.655km Spanish Grand Prix circuit, and once again it was a Brawn Mercedes that ended the day at the top of the timesheets.

Rubens Barrichello took over testing duties of the new BGP001 today from Jenson Button, the Brazilian veteran proving every bit as effective as his British team-mate. Barrichello completed 110 laps, his best time of 1:18.926s coming on his 102nd tour.

Barrichello’s time eclipses Button’s Wednesday best by just over two-tenths of a second and while undoubtedly the time was recorded on a low fuel run, it underlines the raw pace of the new challenger.

Nico Rosberg upped the pace for in his Williams Toyota, setting the second fastest time of the day eight-tenths off the ultimate pace. The time shows a big improvement with the FW31, lapping three-tenths clear of the similarly powered TF109 of Timo Glock and some 1.6 seconds quicker than yesterday.

Sebastian Vettel was back behind the wheel of the Red Bull Renault to wrap up the Milton Keynes-based team’s pre-season test programme and set the fourth fastest time ahead of Fernando Alonso in the Renault.
Alonso was however restricted to just 64 laps today as the R29 suffered an engine failure mid-afternoon bringing out the red flags due to oil being laid down from the pit lane to turn five.

Felipe Massa lapped half a second of his Wednesday best in the Ferrari F60, ending the day sixth fastest ahead of Robert Kubica in the BMW Sauber.

McLaren has struggled for pace all week in Barcelona, as they did last week at Jerez. The team will be mildly encouraged by the pace today however as it lifts them from the bottom end of the timesheets to eighth, albeit almost two seconds off Barrichello’s best time.

Sebastien Buemi and Sebastien Bourdais shared the new Toro Rosso Ferrari with the former putting in 62 laps and setting the ninth fastest time and the latter just 27 laps and the 11th best time. Giancarlo Fisichella split the STR duo in tenth in the new Force India Mercedes.

While this is the end of the Barcelona group test, Brawn Mercedes, McLaren Mercedes, Renault and Williams Toyota now travel to Jerez to start another test programme commencing Sunday morning.

[Redliner]

That's what I'm thinking...these guys wouldn't be running 100+ laps and than stopping for gas and getting back on w/ a fast lap.

On top of that, even if it wasn't a fast car, they've sure got the reliability down too -- 100+ laps on each of those days is damn amazing for a team that was on its death bed just this time last week.

Hell, I knew Brawn was a genius, but WOW. I guess it's still a little too early to say that but still...it looks really promising so far. I hope they get enough money to continue development throughout the season. I read they already have parts ready for Barcelona...they just need money to maintain the momentum

[DrDickAction]

Maybe Schumi was really only about as good as Jens and it was Brawn that was the genius the whole time

[mads]

so im assuming someone up at honda is about to commit suicide right about now?>

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

so im assuming someone up at honda is about to commit suicide right about now?>

they couldn't afford it.. the gain in reputation and PR was not that significant during this tough time anyways. think about it, how many sports cars does honda have in its entire lineup right now. they have more important issues to deal with right now without being involved in F1.

plus maybe it was the honda engine that sucked all along.. _{i doubt it...}

[mads]

they couldn't afford it.. the gain in reputation and PR was not that significant during this tough time anyways. think about it, how many sports cars does honda have in its entire lineup right now. they have more important issues to deal with right now without being involved in F1.

plus maybe it was the honda engine that sucked all along.. _{i doubt it...}

that probably has something to do with investing a shitload of money into brawn without having a title sponsor

[DrDickAction]

5$ says Emo ends up at BrawnGP along with santander and telefonica next season.