3530 replies to this topic

[Redliner]

BMW in motor sports is just like peas in a pod. It's just meant to be!

So is Honda...look how that turned out

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

So is Honda...look how that turned out

dont get too down over honda.. as disappointing as their race team is, the company strives in being one of the market leaders in R&D and innovation. they seem to excel in every market they pursue (except F1, which i expect will also come in the near future with RB at the helm). i'm not a huge fan of their f1 program but they've definitely made the 1st step to a winning team by getting RB on board. ross is a great engineer, and above all a great leader of engineers.. i'm confident they'll move up the pecking order.


on the other hand you have RBR who are gonna be screwed come next near when the emphasis shifts away from aero and they have adrian sitting at home scratching his ass trying to figure out what to do next.

[Redliner]

dont get too down over honda.. as disappointing as their race team is, the company strives in being one of the market leaders in R&D and innovation. they seem to excel in every market they pursue (except F1, which i expect will also come in the near future with RB at the helm). i'm not a huge fan of their f1 program but they've definitely made the 1st step to a winning team by getting RB on board. ross is a great engineer, and above all a great leader of engineers.. i'm confident they'll move up the pecking order.


on the other hand you have RBR who are gonna be screwed come next near when the emphasis shifts away from aero and they have adrian sitting at home scratching his ass trying to figure out what to do next.

Very true. The masses see just another car company, but Honda really strives to be at the top of the technological heap. Still, it's disappointing to see their F1 team falter as it has lately. RB will def. turn it around but I can't support Honda with Fry still there. I hate French Fryies.

Newey's going to be designing fail-boats after this

[_R_]

Lewis Hamilton left onlookers bewildered on Thursday as he hung from a wire amid the backdrop of a huge Trojan horse on a Turkish theatre stage.

As reported, the McLaren driver was making a guest appearance at 'Troya'; an historical theatre show by a local folkdance troupe, before moving on to Istanbul to prepare for this weekend's Grand Prix.

But rather than donning the historic garb of Troya's actors, the 23-year-old was decked out in his sponsor-laden Formula One overalls and swung around the stage attached to a wire.


British newspaper The Times' F1 correspondent Ed Gorman watched Hamilton's antics and described it as "an extremely odd occasion."

A columnist for the publication then wrote: "The horse Hamilton should be worrying about is the prancing one of Ferrari."

this almost seems like something that we'd write about on this site
pure gold...

[Redliner]

^WTF...I can't support LH anymore I just can't...



RIP Giles January 18, 1950 - May 8, 1982.
(I was reminded by Axisofoversteer.blogspot.com)

[Resonator79]

this almost seems like something that we'd write about on this site
pure gold...

Is it just me, or does the look his face indicate that the harness around his crotch is just a bit too tight? "Ow.. my nuts!"

[DocGolem]

McLaren have revealed the use of the wrong lacquer coating, ie paint job, is to blame for Heikki Kovalainen's horrific Spanish GP shunt.

The Finn suffered a concussion when the front left tyre of his MP4-23 disintegrated on lap 22 of the grand prix, sending him hurtling into the tyre wall head-on.

McLaren, together with Japanese supplier Enkei, who produce their wheels, investigated the crash, ruling that it has been caused by the wheel being incorrectly coated with a clear lacquer.

"During the recent Spanish Grand Prix a new front wheel on Heikki car failed on Lap 22," the team statement said.

"Vodafone McLaren Mercedes and its Official Supplier of wheels have now conducted a thorough technical investigation to determine the exact cause of the failure.

"It has been established that, owing to a process fault during manufacture, the outer clamp surface of the wheel was given a clear lacquer coating. As a consequence of this fault, the clamp load that attached the wheel was not to specification.

"In running, the consequent loss of load caused the wheel to fret and distort, leading to its eventual failure.

"Vodafone McLaren Mercedes and the wheel supplier have now established new procedures designed to prevent a re-occurrence of this issue."

Categorically.

[F1]

Let's do some learning



Technical insight: Renault's J-damper

There has been a lot of chat about Renault's 'J-damper'. But what is it exactly? Craig Scarborough explains

By Craig Scarborough
autosport.com's technical writer


This year's technical innovation has taken a while to appear. But from first mentions in the Renault spy case to teams mentioning the technology more openly at the opening races, it seems there has been a return to Mass Dampers.


Far left is the Ferrari J-Damper mounted between the suspension rockers © XPB/LAT (Click to enlarge)
Unlike the Mass Dampers of 2006, these solutions are smaller and more integrated into the cars suspension. At the moment there isn't a clear name for the technology - J-damper was McLaren's nomenclature and appears to have stuck.



But the 'J' was not, in fact, for Jounce - a term for a bouncy/jumpy movement - but simply a random letter used by McLaren as a decoy.

These new devices have also received a long list of other terms including E-damper, Inertia damper and rotary damper, but the McLaren term, however ill-fitting, appears to have stuck.

Little has been detailed about the J-damper. It is known now that they are a solution to replace the now-banned mass dampers. The evidence given in the Renault spy case mentioned a mass spinning inside a damper, but the benefit of this in a conventional damper defied any logic.

This is probably why Renault did not at first work out the use for the McLaren J-damper. It's not clear who first had the idea, but many teams are reckoned to be using the dampers this year, Ferrari and McLaren being the lead teams with the devices.

Pictures of the Ferrari in pre-season testing revealed a large damper-like device fitted to the rear of the car, adding the belief that Ferrari is racing this technology.

Indeed, many people now point to the failures on the Ferraris at Monza last year as being a fault with the J-damper. Additionally, BMW Sauber, Toyota and Red Bull are on the list of suspected J-damper users, but recent comments by Christian Horner suggest that his team is yet to race the damper.


A J-Damper (yellow) fits in place of the usual third damper (front and rear) and works independently of the normal dampers (Blue) © Scarborough (Click to enlarge)
At the moment Pat Symonds has alluded to Renault developing a system, its adoption of the technology delayed by fears that any similarity to McLaren's system might be seen as taking advantage from the McLaren spy pictures.



This seems unfair, as other teams have adopted similar solutions without collusion. No team has thus far questioned the legality of the devices, which aim to replicate the mass damper effect of maximising contact patch load.

As the FIA banned mass dampers on a side issue of influencing aero, its poor choice back in 2006 may come back to haunt it in preventing the spread of J-dampers.

In essence, the J-damper aims to reduce the bounce a tyre puts back into the suspension by spinning a weight inside the third damper fitted to the front and rear of the car.

This adds less weight to the car than the near-10Kg mass damper and fits easily into the existing space around the suspension. However the effort in understanding and tuning the new damper will be far greater. The benefit of this could be up to two-tenths a lap, clearly an advantage worth having, just as it was with the mass dampers of 2006.

Mass Dampers

Tuned Mass Dampers (TMD) were introduced by Renault in 2005 to overcome the natural frequency of the tyres.

A car's suspension is sprung/damped by both the conventional suspension and the bounce in the tyres. While the team can tightly predict and control the suspension movement, the effect of the tyres is largely outside the control of the team and to some extent the tyre supplier.

Formula One rules demands small, 13 inch (33cm) diameter wheels but large diameter tyres (66cm). Thus, the tyres have tall sidewalls which deflect both vertically and laterally. It is the vertical movement that affects the suspension, and this alters the pressure that the cars puts on the tyre's contact patch.


Renault's 2006 Tuned Mass Damper (TMD) placed a sprung 9kg weight inside the nose cone © Scarborough (Click to enlarge)
As the tyre deflects vertically, the tyres work against the rest of the suspension and can lessen the load on the contact patch, reducing grip as well as making grip inconsistent.



Offsetting this movement is hard to achieve with conventional springs and dampers, which is why Renault developed the TMD tuned to the same frequency of the tyre's natural spring rate.

Renault placed a weight (mass) and allowed it slide up and down on a shaft controlled by springs and damper. As the tyres bounced the mass damper counteracted the forces that the tyres fed into the chassis to maintain a more consistent load on the contact patch.

Renault enjoyed an exclusive period with the TMD, but soon other teams found out about and adopted TMDs to the point in mid-2006 when over half the grid was racing with front TMDs.

Meanwhile Renault had developed a rear-mounted solution, placing the weight above the gear cluster and via a lever controlled it with a spring/damper.

It was at this stage the FIA stepped in and outlawed these devices. Teams were rumoured to be running masses of as much as nine kilos in the detachable nose cone and although safety was an issue, the FIA chose to ban the device on its effect on aerodynamics.

It was initially believed the devices were to reduce the pitching of the nose during braking, thus making the front wing and floor more aerodynamically efficient. Renault disputed this theory, although the benefit still appears to be possible from the TMD.

Many teams that eschewed the device felt it contravened the movable ballast rules, but the FIA chose not to follow this route.

The other teams felt the device was legal as it was part of the suspension and reacted only to changes in load, which is demanded in the rules. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the FIA's decision, TMD were banned and the teams continued without them until the recent development of J-dampers.

J-dampers


The mass (red) spins between bearings (yellow) on a thread on the damper rod as the suspension moves © Scarborough (Click to enlarge)
Rumours have persisted since the banning of TMDs that top teams had a system that replicated the effect. One suggestion was the use of active damping using magneto-rheological or MR dampers.



These dampers use a magnetic fluid that thickens when an electric current is applied to it. This would require the dampers to have a power cable attached to them - clearly not something the FIA would look kindly on.

There is an MR damper solution that creates its own electricity via a spinning mass inside the damper, thus making do without external power and strictly speaking, only reacting to changes in suspension load. But any of these would immediately fall under the continuing ban on active technologies, and although attractive to the road car manufacturers, these aren't believed to the new solution in use this year.

In fact, the so called J-damper is a far simpler solution. It was alluded to in the WMSC evidence, in that Phil Mackereth brought drawings of McLaren's damper to Renault. Described quite simply as a "damper with a spinning mass", its exact detail and purpose were not expanded upon.

The J-damper works quite simply by spinning a mass when the suspension moves. This conversion of the linear movement of the suspension rockers to a rotation in another direction takes the energy away from the tyres and dissipates it, keeping it from affecting the normal suspension of the car.


Just as with a child's toy, the linear movement of the damper, dissipates into a harmless spinning motion
Tuning the mass and its damping will ensure it only works to offset the tyre's frequency and not other parts of the suspension.

To create the rotating effect, the mass fits inside a damper body, which is fitted to a thread running along the damper rod. The mass will spin when the damper rod moves in and out of the damper body. Bearings on the side faces of the mass allow the mass to spin freely when it presses against the end caps of the damper body.

Understanding how the spinning mass takes energy away from the suspension is at first hard to comprehend. The best analogy is that of a child's spinning top; the type with the plunger to make it spin. You press hard downwards and the energy from your arm is taken away by the spinning of the top, just as the tyre's energy is taken away by the J-damper.

Unlike the TMDs, the J-damper is fitted as part of the suspension. Being fitted in place of the heave (also known as the 'third') damper, the device is only used when the both sides of the suspension are moving at the same time (i.e. not when the car is rolling).

As the unit fits in place of an existing suspension piece, being both a similar size and shape, it's hard to spot and easy for the designer to package.

Additionally, it's easy for the teams to fit a J-damper both front and rear. As it would be recognised as a conventional part of the suspension, the FIA is less likely to outlaw it.

To date is it believed that the teams are racing with these devices, and one suspects it's with some FIA knowledge. It's certainly common knowledge in the pitlane, and unless someone protests the solutions it is plausible the devices will remain to be seen as legal and be adopted by all teams.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

J is just the common letter used for inertias (i.e. J_{xx} = principal inertia around x-axis) since 'I' is usually reserved for the Identity matrix. i dont think its as arbitrary as the author suggests. thats why the J-damper has been also called the Inertia-Damper in several publications.

my understanding as to why the FIA allows the J-damper as opposed to renault's mass damper of '06 is due to the axes they work in.. the mass damper of '06 worked in the pitch axis whereas it looks like the J-damper works in the roll axis. since the pitch is directly connected to the AOA of the wings it was deemed as an 'aero device'..

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

NEW QUALIFYING REGULATIONS:

The FIA has confirmed that five cars will be excluded from the first two sessions of qualifying in the wake of Super Aguri's withdrawal from Formula One.

The sporting regulations for 2008 were originally written based around an entry of 24 cars, where seven cars were to be excluded from Q1 and Q2 to leave 10 cars in the final session.

Although there was a proviso written should the entry drop to 22 cars, with six cars being dropped from each session, there was nothing official for a scenario where there were only 20 cars.

But following discussions by the race stewards at the Turkish Grand Prix, it was decided that five cars will be excluded from the first two qualifying sessions.

A statement issued by the FIA on Thursday evening said: "The Stewards, having received a report from the Technical Delegate note that 20 cars will participate in the 2008 Turkish Grand Prix.

"Therefore under article 33.1 of the 2008 Sporting Regulations, the Stewards have decided that only five cars will be excluded after Q1 and Q2 of the Qualifying Practice."

Although less cars are to be excluded in the first session, the absence of Super Aguri will actually make it harder for those teams who have to work hard to make it through to Q2.

The pace of Super Aguri so far this season effectively meant the rest of the grid were fighting over four slots in Q1, whereas now there will be an extra risk of not making it through to second qualifying.

cliffs: knockout quali is now bottom 5 for Q1, bottom 5 for Q2 and then top 10 shootout for Q3.


p.s. someone needs to make the race weekend thread w/ this race week's poll

[kngrsll]

cool article on the J dampers... thats neat.

[Redliner]

http://www.autoblog....h-john-mcelroy/

more on the KERS for F1. That's pretty damn cool

[draobpi]

sadly with the new qualifying rules, it is very likely that honda and force india can go to Q2.

[DrDickAction]

sadly with the new qualifying rules, it is very likely that honda and force india can go to Q2.

not bummed about force india in Q2...especially if they show up the hondas.

[DrDickAction]

http://www.autoblog....h-john-mcelroy/

more on the KERS for F1. That's pretty damn cool

This is what F1 needs more of...cool ass innovation.

[MrHahn]

Categorically.

Did anyone else see earlier in the season that Mclaren broke something like 6 rims trying to put the tyre on? I think Mclaren is trying too hard with making their wheels light and compromising their drivers safety

[draobpi]

I would like to thank Mr. Hamilton for giving me great insights into the history of the world. For all these years of my life, I knew something was wrong with history when they talked about the Trojan Horse. I mean it couldn't possibly be true ! But thanks to Mr. Hamilton, I have learned the real reason behind the Trojan Horse: Flying Black Man from the future in McLaren Mercdes overalls gave them the idea to use a Torjan Horse. Fantastic !

[noname]

been a while since I posted, but just wanted to ask - anyone have a link to stream the race? The old simulcastplayer is not working anymore for me.

[MrHahn]

http://mad-max.runho...t/f1player.html

posted from the Turkey race thread

[Skyliner]

I would like to thank Mr. Hamilton for giving me great insights into the history of the world. For all these years of my life, I knew something was wrong with history when they talked about the Trojan Horse. I mean it couldn't possibly be true ! But thanks to Mr. Hamilton, I have learned the real reason behind the Trojan Horse: Flying Black Man from the future in McLaren Mercdes overalls gave them the idea to use a Torjan Horse. Fantastic !

[Deadpool]

Season is looking to be awesome.

Bring on Monaco

[_R_]

In further evidence of his increasing post-F1 cool, Michael Schumacher has just unveiled a motorcycle helmet.

Big Schu has teamed up with Schuberth (no relation) to create the 'Schuberth Race' helmet, which is described as 'an extremely aerodynamic and lightweight helmet, filled with numerous technical and safety innovations'. It appears to have a lot of holes for extra brain cooling.

Schumacher has worked with Schuberth for several years now: in 2004, he helped develop the first lightweight carbon helmet, showing it off in a publicity stunt where it was run over by a tank. Big Schu's head was not inside at the time.

Since quitting the four-wheel racing scene, Schumacher has been getting back into motorbikes, racing in the KTM Trophy series and testing out the Ducati MotoGP bike.

Next week, Big Schu wrestles crocodiles with one arm tied behind his back before disappearing off into the sunset with Scarlett Johansson. On the Batmobile.

it's a nice looking lid

[Redliner]

it's a nice looking lid

I wouldn't mind a Schuberth Altho I think he picked that company just for the "Schu" in Schuberth

[_R_]

I wouldn't mind a Schuberth Altho I think he picked that company just for the "Schu" in Schuberth

Ferrari drivers are required to wear Schuberth...
Adrian Newy designed cars require the drivers to wear Arai

forgot where i read that...

[yonson]

I WANT a Schuberth!