1302 replies to this topic

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

Aero is a part of it, but I honestly don't think that literally every part of the OWG's work could be undone with JUST the DDs. It's not like the DDs are some sort of massive upgrade from the older style diffusers. So given that, how can a similar diffuser (that from my understanding is still smaller than the older style diffusers), combined with all the other changes, do essentially nothing? If it was really ALL the DDs, they would have likely moved to close the loophole for this upcoming year as they're still tweaking the rules on aero to improve passing.

It literally doesn't add up to me that there's one singular, known, issue that's not having steps taken to rectify the issue. It has to be deeper than that.

I wouldn't say the DDs are the sole reason, but banning wheel farings vs. banning DDs I think its obvious that the latter would have more effect on allowing for overtaking. IMO the reason they aren't reversing the decision on DDs now is because of the millions in costs to re-design the rear end vs. zero to remove the farings.

[Redliner]

I wouldn't say the DDs are the sole reason, but banning wheel farings vs. banning DDs I think its obvious that the latter would have more effect on allowing for overtaking. IMO the reason they aren't reversing the decision on DDs now is because of the millions in costs to re-design the rear end vs. zero to remove the farings.

I better not be watching crappy racing next year because of this

[_R_]

I wouldn't say the DDs are the sole reason, but banning wheel farings vs. banning DDs I think its obvious that the latter would have more effect on allowing for overtaking. IMO the reason they aren't reversing the decision on DDs now is because of the millions in costs to re-design the rear end vs. zero to remove the farings.

they spent millions developing KERS for a season... and we all know how well that worked out

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

they spent millions developing KERS for a season... and we all know how well that worked out

McLaren towards the end of the season was pretty damn competitive, and had Ferrari not given up on 2009 so early I'd think they'd be up there too.. The call to eliminate KERS in 2010 has a lot to do with the reason why a lot of the teams (BMW, Renault, Williams, etc) just never bothered to continue development of the system IMO. If they had at least kept it an option for 2010 and 2011 then I'd think more teams would have invested in the long term and got on board with KERS, especially now that fuel efficiency is going to be a factor.

[Nacho]

I wouldn't say the DDs are the sole reason, but banning wheel farings vs. banning DDs I think its obvious that the latter would have more effect on allowing for overtaking. IMO the reason they aren't reversing the decision on DDs now is because of the millions in costs to re-design the rear end vs. zero to remove the farings.

If they'd moved to ban the DDs just after the hearing for 2010 it wouldn't have cost that much, in the grand scheme of things. All the '10 cars would have just reverted to the original 09 designs, save the few big diffuser teams.

The only way to make aero not an issue is to strip all, or most, of it off the cars. And freeze development. And, honestly, i'm as much interested in the tech race of F1 as I am most of the other aspects, so removing that factor would significantly decrease my interest.

[Nacho]

McLaren towards the end of the season was pretty damn competitive, and had Ferrari not given up on 2009 so early I'd think they'd be up there too.. The call to eliminate KERS in 2010 has a lot to do with the reason why a lot of the teams (BMW, Renault, Williams, etc) just never bothered to continue development of the system IMO. If they had at least kept it an option for 2010 and 2011 then I'd think more teams would have invested in the long term and got on board with KERS, especially now that fuel efficiency is going to be a factor.

I don't think that was just the KERS. Additionally, theirs was always reportedly the best, by a large margin.

If they go to single-supplier KERS, i'm putting my money on them getting the contract, for obvious reasons.

[Redliner]

I don't want to see a single supplier of KERS nor do I want default aerodynamics. However, they do need to get the cars back in line and make racing more interesting. And on the flip side, they need to make tracks more difficult to drive with flowing fast corners (Turn 8 @ Turkey for example). No more point-n-shoot tracks that "encourage overtaking" but are a bore to watch.

Watching someone stalk another car around a high-speed bend is compared to outbraking down a long straight away into a 60mph/90' right hand turn. It's very meh. There's good overtaking and than there's bad overtaking...

Also, has everyone forgotten the fact taht the series needs some frikkin' tires for next year???

No bridgestone, michelin, pirelli, goodyear. All have said they're not interested...any ideas who it could be?

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

I don't want to see a single supplier of KERS nor do I want default aerodynamics. However, they do need to get the cars back in line and make racing more interesting. And on the flip side, they need to make tracks more difficult to drive with flowing fast corners (Turn 8 @ Turkey for example). No more point-n-shoot tracks that "encourage overtaking" but are a bore to watch.

Watching someone stalk another car around a high-speed bend is compared to outbraking down a long straight away into a 60mph/90' right hand turn. It's very meh. There's good overtaking and than there's bad overtaking...

Also, has everyone forgotten the fact taht the series needs some frikkin' tires for next year???

No bridgestone, michelin, pirelli, goodyear. All have said they're not interested...any ideas who it could be?

so true, but also so impossible now that aero grip is so important. i'm not sure making those front tires narrower next year will improve things either

[Nacho]

so true, but also so impossible now that aero grip is so important. i'm not sure making those front tires narrower next year will improve things either

I can't imagine it will in any way.

[Redliner]

http://alpinestarsin...m/brawn-nov2009

Has anyone read this? I haven't seen this bit of news anywhere else?

Brawn to be Renamed Mercedes?

Will the 2009 World Championship-winning Brawn GP team be renamed to feature the word 'Mercedes' ahead of the 2010 season.

Germany's authoritative Auto Motor und Sport insists the Brackley based outfit's rumored buy-in by the German marquee is definitely taking place, which will result in the cars bearing a silver livery.

But whether the name can be changed to officially include Mercedes depends on the agreement of McLaren, the Stuttgart-based luxury car maker's exclusive F1 partner.

McLaren has already vetoed Red Bull's desired use of Mercedes engines for 2010, but prior to the 2009 season Martin Whitmarsh approved a two-year supply deal for Brawn.

Auto Motor und Sport claims that "error" could cost Whitmarsh his job as team boss, with Ron Dennis linked with a return to the pit wall after appearing at the Abu Dhabi finale earlier this month.

Brawn and Mercedes are hoping to announce the details of their intensified collaboration within the coming days, the magazine said.

"We are looking at all opportunities for the future but it is too early to announce anything yet," Ross Brawn told PA Sport.

[DrDickAction]

Wow,

Hadn't heard the Whitmarsh bit, no.

[vietlol]

http://cgi.ebay.de/w...em=150386832229

"The car is in condition as in the 1994 Formula One season with paddle shift and traction control. The car is in racing condition, with the painting and sponsoring scheme as in 1994."

laffo

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

Autosport article request plz:
http://www.autosport...=...ure&id=2485

[_R_]

There have been talks that Mercedes has wanted to buy Brawn before... mostly because McLaren and Mercedes aren't really seeing eye to eye much lately after the "failure" of the SLR and now that McLaren is about to release a new supercar, Mercedes are rumored to be pissed because they got snubbed engine wise...

but that whitmarsh bit... that's new

[Nacho]

There have been talks that Mercedes has wanted to buy Brawn before... mostly because McLaren and Mercedes aren't really seeing eye to eye much lately after the "failure" of the SLR and now that McLaren is about to release a new supercar, Mercedes are rumored to be pissed because they got snubbed engine wise...

but that whitmarsh bit... that's new

Supposedly, Mercedes has been trying to buy the rest of McLaren for some time now, with the McLaren guys refusing to sell. So the rumblings about Mercedes looking to buy a smaller team and be a full constructor (a-la BMW, after their failed attempt to buy out Frank Williams) have been floating for a while. Obviously Brawn would be the obvious choice for them, as they're small, but successful. However, I do wonder if Brawn and co will so readily sell out their team now that they've got about as much notoriety as possible after this season.

Either way, I don't think that McLaren they should get rid of Whitmarsh. I think he's done a damn good job this year turning the team around.


Older rumblings about Mercedes trying to get McLaren.

in 08
http://www.autoblog....uy-out-mclaren/

And 06
http://www.autoblog....uy-out-mclaren/


Oh, and as for the SLR, I always heard that McLaren was fighting to make it a McLaren, super light and purposeful, while Mercedes was pushing back to make it, well, a Mercedes.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

Oh, and as for the SLR, I always heard that McLaren was fighting to make it a McLaren, super light and purposeful, while Mercedes was pushing back to make it, well, a Mercedes.

That's the idea I got from it too. Unfortunately the SLR was too much Mercedes and too little McLaren IMO. The design philosophy of the SLS AMG and the P11 exemplifies this perfectly.

[vietlol]

the only thing Mclaren on the SLR was the the hood resembling an F1 nosecone

[_R_]

That's the idea I got from it too. Unfortunately the SLR was too much Mercedes and too little McLaren IMO. The design philosophy of the SLS AMG and the P11 exemplifies this perfectly.

are you saying the SLS is a Mercedes design? because it was designed completely by the AMG department if i remember correctly...
or are you saying that since AMG designed the SLS, it doesn't look like a traditional merc?

[MrHahn]

I think he's saying the philosophy of both cars shows which had more influence on the SLR. The SLS is heavy, uses an AMG (Mercedes) Powertrain and is suited to the road. Whereas the MP12 whatever the shit is called uses a bespoke high revving turbo engine, light weight construction and all that jazz that comes along with a more race/track car. The SLR was a boat, hence Mercedes having more influence than Mclaren.

[_R_]

I think he's saying the philosophy of both cars shows which had more influence on the SLR. The SLS is heavy, uses an AMG (Mercedes) Powertrain and is suited to the road. Whereas the MP12 whatever the shit is called uses a bespoke high revving turbo engine, light weight construction and all that jazz that comes along with a more race/track car. The SLR was a boat, hence Mercedes having more influence than Mclaren.

gotcha...
yeah, Mercedes pretty much takes the raw power approach and their engines are top notch... crazy HP and Torque...
not exactly the finesse of other super car makers... Merc/AMG are basically the king of comfortable GT cars...

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

gotcha...
yeah, Mercedes pretty much takes the raw power approach and their engines are top notch... crazy HP and Torque...
not exactly the finesse of other super car makers... Merc/AMG are basically the king of comfortable GT cars...

I'd go ahead and add the word 'sorta-reliable' to that statement. If 'sorta-reliable' is not a concern then I'd say Aston Martin is the king of grand tourers.

[DrDickAction]

I'd go ahead and add the word 'sorta-reliable' to that statement. If 'sorta-reliable' is not a concern then I'd say Aston Martin is the king of grand tourers.

dawt.

Sorta reliable and easily serviceable if you happen to be grand touring.

AMG is closer to the king of muscle cars.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

dawt.

Sorta reliable and easily serviceable if you happen to be grand touring.

AMG is closer to the king of muscle cars.

wait, what?

MB and 'easily servicable' do not mix.

[kngrsll]

sweet AV

[DrDickAction]

wait, what?

MB and 'easily servicable' do not mix.

For a near GT/supercar. I'd imagine it's fuck of a lot easier to find a MB dealership in Indiana than it is an Aston Martin dealership.

edit: and yes, awesome new AV.