341 replies to this topic

[DrDickAction]

You say this every year

But yeah...I still dislike Lewis.  I just like Nico even less now.  This team-mate drama isn't nearly isn't as fun as Webbah/Vettel...lol.  

I think this is what's so shit about it.  We go straight from a multi-year vettel romp to a multi-year hambone romp.  It's been 4 years without any competition.

[Redliner]

I think this is what's so shit about it.  We go straight from a multi-year vettel romp to a multi-year hambone romp.  It's been 4 years without any competition.

This is how motorsports is though...but it's not much unlike other sports.  Most sports are, to a point predictable.  

Basketball for example, is pretty predictable about who's going to the Finals.  Same with Football.   The rich teams that can afford the most talent (GS Warriors) do well, while the poor teams do terrible (insert terrible team).

I think the most unpredictable sports are likely to be hockey and baseball.  Perhaps international soccer as well?

So really...how would one make F1 (or motorsports in general) more unpredictable?   

[DrDickAction]

This is how motorsports is though...but it's not much unlike other sports.  Most sports are, to a point predictable.  

Basketball for example, is pretty predictable about who's going to the Finals.  Same with Football.   The rich teams that can afford the most talent (GS Warriors) do well, while the poor teams do terrible (insert terrible team).

I think the most unpredictable sports are likely to be hockey and baseball.  Perhaps international soccer as well?

So really...how would one make F1 (or motorsports in general) more unpredictable?   

Open up engine development.  The 1 year freeze followed by this token system has done nothing but artificially sustain the advantage Mercedes developed in it;s initial v6 design.  There's no doubt in my mind ferrari and rbr would be significantly closer, if not actually winning, had they been able to aggressively improve their motors.

 

This is way more like freezing rosters in the NBA.  We'd see the cavs and warriors in the finals each of the next 3 years, while the teams that are a player or 2 away would be relegated to mediocrity.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

The rich teams that can afford the most talent (GS Warriors) do well, while the poor teams do terrible (insert terrible team).

McLaren and Ferrari aren't exactly poor teams. The issue, as DDA said, comes down to a locked-in advantage of a superior initial design which supposedly should have been resolved by engine dev 'tokens', but aren't. Maybe what should have been done to equalize engine tech is that tokens are given based on reversed final season standings.

You always seen aero advantages equalize over a season as teams copy and adapt (even the Brawn-o double diffuser and RBR coanda exhausts were copied) because the regs don't say you are locked into a specific aero package.

[DrDickAction]

McLaren and Ferrari aren't exactly poor teams. The issue, as DDA said, comes down to a locked-in advantage of a superior initial design which supposedly should have been resolved by engine dev 'tokens', but aren't. Maybe what should have been done to equalize engine tech is that tokens are given based on reversed final season standings.

You always seen aero advantages equalize over a season as teams copy and adapt (even the Brawn-o double diffuser and RBR coanda exhausts were copied) because the regs don't say you are locked into a specific aero package.

Bingo.  I love the reverse token based on total points idea.

[Redliner]

I agree that the engine token rules are totally stupid, no doubt about that and has prevented close racing.

But the aero advantage never equalized.  RB pretty much dominated until the new MB engines turned F1 into an engine formula.  You can get close to neutralizing that advantage by the end of the year, but by then it's already too late.  And when a new season starts, the advantage grows once again.  

Also, might I add that designs that are copied never have the advantage gap that the original team does.  Brawn's diffuser was copied but the other teams' hacked up diffuser design never made up aero performance that the Brawn car was born with.  They made up the aero difference  in other areas while Brawn struggled to continue development in the second half of the season.  

All in all - most motorsports have 1 or 2 teams that just obliterate the field for a few years while the rest lag behind if it's not a spec series.  (LeMans - w/ Audi, F1 w/ RB & MB, WRC w/ Peugeot...)

[DrDickAction]

2/4 RBR years were pretty close w/ a Ferrari coming in 2nd.  This is an even more exaggerated and predictable shit show.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

You can get close to neutralizing that advantage by the end of the year, but by then it's already too late.  And when a new season starts, the advantage grows once again.

At least there is some closing or neutralizing of the advantage as the season progresses, even if the same team ends up on top, at least it makes for opportunity for some other teams to pull off a win. Currently, we can expect MB to dominate for all of the races this season unless they take each other out since they basically run their cars at reduced engine modes when nobody else is close.

[Redliner]

Before the RB domination, it was Schumey's Ferrari mascaraing the field, or Williams or Senna/Prost's McLaren total season domination.  I'm just saying that it is possible that we are looking back at the sport with rose-tinted glasses on.  F1, at least from a generalized view is relatively predictable. 

During the 3 of the 4 years RB won...it was still a question of whether RB would screw up enough to lose rather than having a real challenge by Ferrari/McLaren.  I distinctly watching Vettel run off in front while everyone chased behind pretty much every race and this forum was like "OMG, another Vettel snooze fest." It is now changing to "OMG, another MB snooze fest" lol...  

 

The only exception is 2010, that was a great year where RB didn't start to pull away until the last half of the season and everyone started off on pretty much equal footing.

In other news, holy shit that was 6 years ago...! 

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

Before the RB domination, it was Schumey's Ferrari mascaraing the field, or Williams or Senna/Prost's McLaren total season domination.  I'm just saying that it is possible that we are looking back at the sport with rose-tinted glasses on.  F1, at least from a generalized view is relatively predictable. 

During the 3 of the 4 years RB won...it was still a question of whether RB would screw up enough to lose rather than having a real challenge by Ferrari/McLaren.  I distinctly watching Vettel run off in front while everyone chased behind pretty much every race and this forum was like "OMG, another Vettel snooze fest." It is now changing to "OMG, another MB snooze fest" lol...  
 
The only exception is 2010, that was a great year where RB didn't start to pull away until the last half of the season and everyone started off on pretty much equal footing.

In other news, holy shit that was 6 years ago...!

Ongoing discussion with Redliner on why the last 2 seasons of F1 has sucked so much, lets look at the win pct for the winning constructor each year.  I can't seem to find two seasons back-to-back where a single constructor won 70%+ of the races except the last 2 years.
 
1987:  56% (Williams)
1988:  94% (McLaren)
1989:  63% (McLaren)
1990:  38% (McLaren)
1991:  50% (McLaren)
1992:  63% (Williams)
1993:  69% (Williams)
1994:  44% (Williams)
1995:  63% (Benetton)
1996:  81% (Williams)
1997:  47% (Williams)
1998:  56% (McLaren)
1999:  38% (Ferrari)
2000:  59% (Ferrari)
2001:  53% (Ferrari)
2002:  88% (Ferrari)
2003:  50% (Ferrari)
2004:  83% (Ferrari)
2005:  42% (Renault)
2006:  44% (Renault)
2007:  53% (Ferrari)
2008:  44% (Ferrari)
2009:  47% (Brawn)
2010:  42% (RBR)
2011:  58% (RBR)
2012:  37% (RBR)
2013:  68% (RBR)
2014:  84% (Mercedes)
2015:  84% (Mercedes)

numbers don't lie. RBR was nowhere as dominant by stats as we recall. Ferrari was on and off during their years of 'dominance' as well.

We're well on target to make it 3 years in a row of 80+% win rate from a single team, currently half way through the season and at 90%.

[DrDickAction]

I bet '16 ends up even worse - flirting with 94%

[vietlol]

Mclaren going to overhaul Ferrari by start of next season at this rate with Vettel on suicide watch after being beaten by Kimi.

[yonson]

:yawn:

 

Most of the race was a snoozefest, at least there was a little "racing" at the end...  

 

I FF'd through most of the race though up until that point.

[_R_]

There really wasn't a fight for 1-2, 3-4, or 5-6, just a lot of close follow the leader...

I guess that's "interesting" ?

[_R_]

Hamilton kindly telling Estaban what position he was in...

 

[_R_]

[yonson]

Kid's got a respectable top 3...

[Redliner]

I thought the race between Kimi & Max was pretty good - Max is on the very limit of what I consider acceptable defensive moves.  Waiting until Kimi commits and then blocking is pretty unique...but I felt like Kimi should've made a pass stick on Max.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

[_R_]

Good news
As of last race, radio message rules were clarified
As of today, radio messages are now okay

wtf FIA...

[yonson]

x 11ty...

[_R_]

I think Nico doesn't understand you need to actually make the turn... Not drive straight 100000 feet beyond the apex before giving it a go.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

I think Nico doesn't understand you need to actually make the turn... Not drive straight 100000 feet beyond the apex before giving it a go.

He claims he was at full lock and the car was under steering

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

x 11ty...

Quotes like this don't help the cause either.

http://www.crash.net...on-lap-two.html
 

I turned down my engine pretty much from the second, third lap, I think it was

[DrDickAction]

I just don't get how this isn't murdering viewership for the sport.