909 replies to this topic

[TimzSI]

whenever I hear the name nick fry, in my head I see that video of him defending some shit box ford on some british 60 minutes show. and I lollerskate on down the road to it.

[vietlol]

why even have a clarification that MS is doing fine? isnt it kind of obvious....or did everyone expect him to just smash barbie?

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

why even have a clarification that MS is doing fine? isnt it kind of obvious....or did everyone expect him to just smash barbie?

Apparently Nick Fry did... Hell, he scored points and was only 4 seconds behind his teammate over a 49 lap race. That seems a pretty good days work for having not raced cars for 3 years IMO.

[vietlol]

Martin Whitmarsh would come out and say that Button is doing fine, but the FIA is keeping a close eye on them after lie-gate.

[vietlol]

The debate rages on about how F1 can save itself from monotony this season. We’ve had an unprecdeented number of comments and suggestions here on JA on F1.

Following on from Sunday’s uninspiring Bahrain Grand Prix there have been calls for radical steps to be taken to change the cars and improve the racing, with many people pointing to the aerodynamics and particularly the double diffuser, which the FIA decided to allow at the start of last season, as the prime culprit.

The double diffuser is on its way out of the sport in 2011 anyway, having been voted out by the FOTA group of teams over the winter. But that won’t save the 2010 season.

Many readers of this site have said that aerodynamics are the area where the cars need to be reworked more generally in the interests of racing.

But there is a counter argument, which says that fans think the downforce is the devil because they are influenced by drivers. And it comes from the aerodynamicists themselves, not surprisingly.


Frank Dernie, one of the leading F1 aerodynamicists for the past 30 years, has sent me this note, arguing that the “overtaking problem in F1″ is not the aero, but the mechanical grip from the tyres and the lack of mistakes made by drivers on gearshifts due to semi automatic gearboxes. He advocates manual gearboxes and rock hard tyres. Hear him out.

“None of the facts in the last 30 years support the theory that grippy tyres and low downforce promote overtaking. If reducing downforce was the answer, then 1983 would have shown it, since we lost 80% of the aero efficiency in the 1983 rules, ” he says. “But there was no more overtaking than in 1982.

“Here’s the proof – if downforce prevented overtaking, historically the races with the fewest overtaking manoeuvres would have been the wet races, where maximum downforce settings are used… Why anybody still thinks a reduction in downforce is the solution when faced with the facts has been a consistent mystery and frustration to me.

“Too much difference in grip between on and off line is a major factor, caused by sticky tyres (lots of mechanical grip)

“Braking distances into slow corners are far too short, caused by sticky tyres (too much mechanical grip).

“The other reason why it is hard to overtake in current F1 is that the fastest cars are at the front with slower ones behind, so there is no reason to expect overtaking unless a driver makes a mistake.

“In this case overtaking will only ever happen following mistakes, which are rare nowadays with super sticky tyres, big runoff areas and semi automatic gearboxes.

“A few things have worked in the past.

– One set of tyre for the race worked, but Michelin’s tyres were much more suited to this than Bridgestone, so it was changed since Bridgestone were to become the only supplier.

– Single lap qualifying. Often fast cars qualified out of pace order, making overtaking likely. It was unpopular since it was “not fair”.

“When there was overtaking in the past it was mainly due to the low grip of the tyres leaving a wide racing line and long braking distances combined with cars much more difficult to drive due to low grip and manual gearboxes, hence more mistakes.

“We will never fix it whilst so many people ignore the facts and fixate on long held views which are completely at variance with the data.

“The problem is that quite a few influential people, like drivers and ex-drivers in the media, do not want the changes which certainly worked in the past. The drivers hate hard tyres, despite them probably being 50% solution, and the engineers love semi-automatic gearboxes, the other 50%…

Most overtakes took place in the past when a driver made a mistake due to poor grip or missed a gear.”

On the subject of double diffusers making it difficult to follow, he said that early last year the Toyota drivers complained that the hardest car to follow was the Renault, which didn’t have a double diffuser.

One of the reasons semi-automactic gearboxes have remained popular is that they prevent engines from over-revving on downshifts, which is even more important in this era of 8 engines per season.

But if F1 engineers can perfect the seamless shift, surely they can invent a system for a manual gearbox which would dip the clutch if the driver tried to select a gear that was too low for the engine speed.

Rock hard tyres and manual boxes and make the drivers work for a living – what do you think?

Found this pretty interesting, though I dont think the conclusion is right. F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport and going back to manual boxes would just be bewildering.

~ground effect~



http://www.jamesalle...ounterargument/

[DrDickAction]

Found this pretty interesting, though I dont think the conclusion is right. F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport and going back to manual boxes would just be bewildering.

~ground effect~



http://www.jamesalle...ounterargument/

Well they sure as shit have shied away from the "pinnacle" with engine homologation, strict limits on kers efficiency, killing traction control, etc.

I kind of think he's onto something. Reopen up engine development, with a huge focus on fuel efficiency what with no pitstop, get rid of the flappy paddles and make the tires a lot shittier.

Makes sense then that a monster engine in quali will take to more fuel into the race, allowing for overtaking by more efficient cars, then re-overtaking once the thirstier car has burned up fuel weight.

That and get rid of the huge asymmetry between front & rear wings.

[_R_]

make the soft tires last 5 - 7 laps but give a 5-6 second lap advantage
and the hard tires hard as fuck and last 18 - 23 laps give or take...

the soft tires have to give you an advantage that lasts longer than it takes to go into the pits to change tires...
so it can't be a little advantage, you need to want them to come in to run on the soft because it's an advantage, not just because they have to...

and screw manual gear boxes, i don't want to see a driver lose a race because while under pressure on the final laps (there's a dream senario) he shifted to 2nd instead of 4th and blew his engine... i prefer to seem him over shoot a brake marker or miss an apex allowing the other guy to sneak through...

[vietlol]

I agree that they should open up development, but a lot of the other ideas would create 'artificial' racing imho. The only reason they mention tyres lasting too long is because they introduced no refueling without addressing other issues such as following the car infront. Teams did what they needed to do to maximise their finishing position. Everyone is outraged.

[DrDickAction]

I agree that they should open up development, but a lot of the other ideas would create 'artificial' racing imho. The only reason they mention tyres lasting too long is because they introduced no refueling without addressing other issues such as following the car infront. Teams did what they needed to do to maximise their finishing position. Everyone is outraged.

I don't think anyone is pissed at the teams, they did what they could to maximize results.

We just need a way to have them driving like they stole it to maximize results.

[vietlol]

reverse grids and ground effect!

[kngrsll]

reverse grids are FUN... we did that last week. took 2nd by 0.8 secs though

[Redliner]

I would not have a problem with manual gear boxes honestly...if you can't handle the pressure and you mis-shift on the last lap, the jokes on you. This is a high intensity sport, and you MUST be at your maximum. Too much computer aid is already at hand...

[vietlol]

Although a fault with Red Bull's Renault engine ultimately meant Seb Vettel was unable to win the race, the revelation that Ferrari were significantly heavier at the start of the grand prix prompted renewed belief that Fernando Alonso would have overtaken Vettel even if a loss of power hadn't compromised the German's pace.

According to BBC pit-lane reporter Ted Kravitz, Williams technical chief Sam Michael has confirmed that Renault, who supply Red Bull with their engines, have the most fuel-efficient unit on the grid, 'followed by Mercedes and Cosworth, with Ferrari the thirstiest'.

As a result, it is reckoned that 'the Red Bulls started the race with 10kg less fuel than the Ferraris. That would have been worth nearly 0.4 seconds a lap in the early stages of the race around the extended Bahrain track. Averaging out at 0.2secs per lap, reckoned Michael, Renault's fuel efficiency would have given Red Bull a 9.8-second advantage on Ferrari over the whole race distance.'

Given the difficulties every driver encountered when trying to overtake, it remains debatable whether Alonso would have found a way past Vettel for the lead of the race but for the loss of power the Red Bull suffered on lap 33. However, Kravitz argues that Alonso would have been at his most potent in the final ten laps of the race as only then would he have been chasing Vettel with a similar amount of fuel onboard.

'Had Vettel not had his problem, we would likely have enjoyed a fight for the lead between Alonso, who had been nursing his tyres throughout the race, and Vettel, with his rear tyres starting to fade. At any other stage of the race, it would not have been a fair fight, as Vettel would have been significantly lighter on fuel. We should bear this in mind in the inevitable debates about the first race being boring,' he contends.

well they asked the FIA to let them make modifications for more 'reliability'

[Redliner]

The problem is that there is no engine development allowed so this is a moot point.

Stupid FIA.

[DrDickAction]

well they asked the FIA to let them make modifications for more 'reliability'

Renault should have been able to do whatever they wanted to with their dog of a motor.

[DrDickAction]

The problem is that there is no engine development allowed so this is a moot point.

Stupid FIA.

[vietlol]

Renault should have been able to do whatever they wanted to with their dog of a motor.

Well they have the best fuel economy, on balance you would have to say the Merc is the best unit but really everyone should have some scope for development or we end up in a stupid situation like this.

[mads]

Martin Whitmarsh would come out and say that Button is doing fine, but the FIA is keeping a close eye on them after lie-gate.

[vietlol]

Force India will become the first team to use a test driver in a Friday practice when Paul di Resta takes the wheel in Australia.

With pre-season testing limited to just 15 days and a whole host of new regulations implemented this season, most of the teams are unlikely to put a test driver in the car on Fridays as their regular racers need the track time.

However, Force India are set to buck the trend.

The team will use di Resta in Friday's practices in Australia, replacing Adrian Sutil, while Tonio Liuzzi will step aside for the Scot when the F1 circus heads to Sepang.

The Melbourne practice sessions will mark di Resta's first outing at a F1 grand prix.

http://www.planetf1....Aussie-practice



I remember this was reeeeaaaally popular over at BMW in 07.

[_R_]

McLaren, MercGP, Renault and BMW(?) have to change their rear diffuser design for Australia

[vietlol]

Renault allowed to make engine changes

ruh roh



http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/82246

[DrDickAction]

Renault allowed to make engine changes

ruh roh



http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/82246

Red Bull Vettel turning into the new Ferrari/Schumi?

[vietlol]

Don't worry, Fred's got this.

[vietlol]

Mercedes GP have put the blame on McLaren for their decision not to supply Red Bull with engines for 2010...

Earlier this week, Red Bull motorsport advisor Helmut Marko revealed that Mercedes had said no to Red Bull when the latter was searching for an engine supplier for this year's Championship.

Added to that, he stated it was because Mercedes were afraid they would be beaten by Red Bull.

Marko told Austria's Servus TV: "They didn't want us. Without being arrogant, they knew that if we had that engine, they wouldn't see us (on the track)."

Mercedes, though, have responded to the allegations, saying they were not the one who turned down Red Bull - and that Red Bull already knew who was to blame.

"McLaren was (our) exclusive partner and did not agree," a Mercedes spokesman told the Cologne newspaper Express.

"Mercedes would have leased its engine to Red Bull and these facts are made known."

and they still cant beat red bull

[MrHahn]

Hamilton reckons Red Bull are 0.5 secs per lap ahead of Mclaren. If they'd kept Fred, they'd be in front.