251 replies to this topic

[Redliner]

Alright, I'm stumped.

Check out the tire marks...gaps in the 11s like that indicate possible TC...

[DrDickAction]

Check out the tire marks...gaps in the 11s like that indicate possible TC...

ahhhhhhhhhhh.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

Cheaters...this was spotted at Monaco...

That is a pic from Montreal, of Webber after the incident w/ VDG, not Monaco.
http://britishmotors...trol-in-canada/
http://www.f1pulse.c...trol-–-report

Either it is some form of TC or the car could have been hopping. I've had the Miata do a couple of hops on shitty auto-x launches before, with the wrong shock damping settings, but I don't think that would make you any quicker, and I doubt the guys at RBR would be making basic setup mistakes like that.

9.3 Traction control
No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive torque demand by the driver.
Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted.

I wonder if you could circumvent that by having a pedal mounted in such a way that wheel slip would actually move the pedal box, so if the FIA were to look at driver pedal position it would appear the driver was actually doing the throttle manipulation?

[Redliner]

That is a pic from Montreal, of Webber after the incident w/ VDG, not Monaco.
http://britishmotors...trol-in-canada/
http://www.f1pulse.c...trol-–-report

Either it is some form of TC or the car could have been hopping. I've had the Miata do a couple of hops on shitty auto-x launches before, with the wrong shock damping settings, but I don't think that would make you any quicker, and I doubt the guys at RBR would be making basic setup mistakes like that.



I wonder if you could circumvent that by having a pedal mounted in such a way that wheel slip would actually move the pedal box, so if the FIA were to look at driver pedal position it would appear the driver was actually doing the throttle manipulation?

Oops.

Pretty sketch with what you're suggesting considering; would make manipulating the throttle kind of difficult and that pedalbox would have to move back and forth VERY quickly. Not sure quick enough to do that. Conversely, they could always put a solenoid on the throttle itself that would pull back revs if it senses slip? That's electronic and would be TC nevertheless. [edit] what I suggested is explicitly against the rules, nvm.

I thought the reason for running McLaren ECUs was to prevent this kind of thing. Damn clever if they are running a TC map

[vietlol]

It's obvious that RBR is cheating somehow since they've been caught doing something shady every year for half a decade now I think TC is a bit of a stretch.

[_R_]

It's obvious that RBR is cheating somehow since they've been caught doing something shady every year for half a decade now I think TC is a bit of a stretch.

Every team does something shady to try and exploit the rules somehow...
any loophole they can exploit that gives them a .1 advantage over the others is worthwhile...
it's only cheating after the loophole is closed, before that, it's up to the engineers to exploit as much as they can...

[vietlol]

Every team does something shady to try and exploit the rules somehow...
any loophole they can exploit that gives them a .1 advantage over the others is worthwhile...
it's only cheating after the loophole is closed, before that, it's up to the engineers to exploit as much as they can...

Yep they all cheat. Would be interesting to see what they would come up with if they had no restrictions except driver safety.

[Redliner]

Yep they all cheat. Would be interesting to see what they would come up with if they had no restrictions except driver safety.

You'd have non-competitive cars running in a big queue as some of the fast ones lap everyone else...

[vietlol]

You'd have non-competitive cars running in a big queue as some of the fast ones lap everyone else...

How's that different from what we have now?

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

How's that different from what we have now?

Every year the cars would make a huge jump in speed, and they would have to re-write the regs to slow them down (for safety). Eventually the back markers would run out of money trying to adapt to new rules each year and leave F1.

[_R_]

FIA Tribunal will announce their verdict tomorrow

This is how it went from what I gather reading the reports...
FIA - We didn't approve this test
Merc - It wasn't our test, it was Pirelli's... oh and sorry for using blank helmets
Pirelli - You can't sanction us, we're not part of the FIA or a competitor

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

FIA Tribunal will announce their verdict tomorrow

This is how it went from what I gather reading the reports...
FIA - We didn't approve this test
Merc - It wasn't our test, it was Pirelli's... oh and sorry for using blank helmets
Pirelli - You can't sanction us, we're not part of the FIA or a competitor

Howard added: "Whiting was asked a general and non-specific question - the general question on the permissibility of using a 2013 car.

"His preliminary response was that such a test would comply with Article 22 providing purpose was for Pirelli to test its tyre and he would check."

Whiting emailed FIA lawyer Sebastian Bernard the following day to enquire about the situation, and was informed that such a scenario could be possible, but would be subject to Pirelli inviting all the others team to test and demonstrate that it has done so.

Howard said that Whiting informed Brawn of the FIA's legal position, but reiterated that it was not a binding stance.

"This communication was not an agreement by the FIA - it was nothing more than Whiting and Bernard's interpretation of [article] 22."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108152


Charlie Whiting off the hook IMO. I have a feeling this isn't going to end well for Ross


edit: http://www.crash.net...river_test.html
Is this Merc letting it slip that they're about to be handed down some sort of punishment?

[_R_]

So Pirelli and Merc get a reprimand and Merc loses 3 days at the young driver test...

So what did we learn from all this? Let your top drivers go at it for 3 days on next gen tires, and fuck over your up and coming drivers... lame.

[Redliner]

So Pirelli and Merc get a reprimand and Merc loses 3 days at the young driver test...

So what did we learn from all this? Let your top drivers go at it for 3 days on next gen tires, and fuck over your up and coming drivers... lame.

Maybe...the reality is, this was a Pirelli test, not an MB test. Which means even though they get to run a 2013 cars with new tires, they aren't allowed to go out and try out wing/suspension/chassis changes until their cars get faster while being easier on their tires. That being said, the experience LH & NR got driving on those tires did help them understand the tires a bit more, sure. But the young drivers test would do more for data collection and making their cars quicker for the teams then this Pirelli test ever did.

I find it an relatively fair penalty. But a fine or lost in points would've even be better...

[_R_]

Unless Pirelli asked Merc to change car setup to see different wear rates. In which case they did glean info. I doubt they ran around for 3 days without adjusting something on the car.

They should've got a points penalty and a fine in my view.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

Unless Pirelli asked Merc to change car setup to see different wear rates. In which case they did glean info. I doubt they ran around for 3 days without adjusting something on the car.

They should've got a points penalty and a fine in my view.

I think it will hurt them. That data will go towards the big summer "shutdown" push for development and could see them fall back for the latter half of the season.

[Redliner]

http://www.renaultsp...30.html?lang=en

2014 V6 sounds...Hmm...like an Indycar

[DrDickAction]

I think it will hurt them. That data will go towards the big summer "shutdown" push for development and could see them fall back for the latter half of the season.

I'd be willing to bet every team on the grid would gladly trade the whippersnapper test for a 3 day romp with both drivers...even if that test is structured by pirelli.

[vietlol]

Well they already got 3 days of testing with their current drivers, banning them from the young driver test is obvious but not enough.

[Redliner]

I'd be willing to bet every team on the grid would gladly trade the whippersnapper test for a 3 day romp with both drivers...even if that test is structured by pirelli.

I read somewhere that Pirelli would not have shared telemetry to the teams either...without that testing data from Pirelli, that test is mostly meaningless except for the drivers getting more mileage under their belt.

With the 3 day young drivers test, they're getting real telemetry still, which is invaluable to the team. It's a fair, but not particularly harsh punishment.

Edit: I'm surprised to not see any Le Mans posts up in here... RIP Allan

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

I'd be willing to bet every team on the grid would gladly trade the whippersnapper test for a 3 day romp with both drivers...even if that test is structured by pirelli.

Indeed..

http://www.crash.net...river_test.html

[Redliner]

Webbers going to Porsche's LMP1 effort...hardly surprising but I'm definitely going to miss his honesty in the paddock. Best of luck to him!

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/112633.html

[yonson]

Now for the silly season to begin on who takes his spot, will RBR promote from within or will it be someone else... My money is on Kimi...

[_R_]

Webbers going to Porsche's LMP1 effort...hardly surprising but I'm definitely going to miss his honesty in the paddock. Best of luck to him!

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/112633.html

They kept talking about Porsches return during the 24 hour of lemans. Specifically how they had a huge announcement plastered right across from the Audi pits.

[DrDickAction]

I am so confused as to why Audi is competing with themselves...