251 replies to this topic

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

I am so confused as to why Audi is competing with themselves...

So they can keep talking about how many wins they have at Le Mans in their ads. To be fair, Toyota put up a fight this year, though it was nothing like the Peugeot/Audi rivalry.

[_R_]

I am so confused as to why Audi is competing with themselves...

and who has the best diesel car engines out in the market right now?
let them race and develop, works for me...

[vietlol]

Kobayashi to RBR heard it here first.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

Some new sporting regs for 2014:

Formula 1 will introduce a penalty point system as a new form of punishment next season, after it was passed, along with a number of sporting regulation changes, during the latest meeting of the World Motor Sport Council at Goodwood Motor Circuit.

The system, which had long been mooted in a bid to tackle repeat offenders, will see drivers who pick up more than 12 points banned from the next Grand Prix, with the figure then remaining on their racing licence for the next 12 months. The amount of points handed out will range from one to three, based on the severity of offences.


"A penalty point system for drivers will be introduced," said an FIA statement. "If a driver accumulates more than 12 points he will be banned from the next race.

"Points will stay on the driver’s licence for 12 months. The amount of points a driver may be given for infringements will vary from one to three depending upon the severity of the offence."

Additional sporting regulation changes ratified by the WMSC:

- Mercedes is now permitted to supply engines to a maximum of four teams in 2014.

- The procedure for a driver to be given the chance to give back any advantage he may have gained by leaving the track has been adopted.

- Four two-day track tests will be allowed in-season in place of the current eight one-day promotional days and the three-day Young Driver Test.

- Track testing will now also be permitted in January 2014 in order to allow earlier testing of the new turbocharged 1.6-litre V6 engine units.

- All team personnel working on a car during a race pit-stop will be required to wear head protection, in a renewed push to improve safety levels.

- Each driver will be provided with one extra set of tyres for use only during the first 30 minutes of first practice on Friday, to encourage teams to take to the track.

- No more than one engine can be homologated by a manufacturer during the new homologation period, which will run from 2014-2020. Changes to the homologated unit will only be permitted for installation, reliability or cost saving reasons.

- Drivers must use a gearbox for six consecutive events, an increase of one.

- The pit lane speed limit has been changed to 80km/h for the whole event, except for Melbourne, Monaco and Singapore which will be limited to 60km/h.

Finally, back to some real in-season testing, no more "promotional filming" bullshit. Also, extra set of tires on Friday is a good start, but they should have been given an extra set for quali too.


Who is going to get the first race ban from the points system? Grosjean or Maldonado?

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

Did I miss something? Why is the British GP not being shown live in the US? I thought they did away with this BS when they left Speed/FOX?

[yonson]

Did I miss something? Why is the British GP not being shown live in the US? I thought they did away with this BS when they left Speed/FOX?

It's live on CNBC, quali isn't live though

[TimzSI]

Mclaren

Bye Marty, bye.

[_R_]

Did I miss something? Why is the British GP not being shown live in the US? I thought they did away with this BS when they left Speed/FOX?

I too need to pay attention as to which nbc channel it's going to show up on... slightly confused this weekend

[Redliner]

http://www.gptoday.c...at_Silverstone/

Pirelli modified tyres without consent at Silverstone


If this is true...Pirelli is going to be in a shit ton of trouble...

[_R_]

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/456752/Pirelli_modified_tyres_without_consent_at_Silverstone/
Pirelli modified tyres without consent at Silverstone
If this is true...Pirelli is going to be in a shit ton of trouble...

Probably some reprimand bullshit the way things are going...
BStones or Michelin's for 2014?
Hankook tires out of now where

[Redliner]

Probably some reprimand bullshit the way things are going...
BStones or Michelin's for 2014?
Hankook tires out of now where

If you were a tire manufacturer and you saw what is happening to Pirelli...would you want in on this shit circus? When BS left the sport they told Pirelli "Good Luck...it's a thankless job" and it's true. They get blamed for everything. "The tires don't last. They fall off a cliff. There's no grip. The races are boring. The tires are exploding..." lol.

[vietlol]

Funny thing is that it's way too late for anyone to come in now to supply for next year, unless they just decide to go back to 2010 BStones out of desperation.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

After exhaustive analysis of the tyres used at Silverstone, Pirelli has concluded that the causes of the failures were principally down to a combination of the following factors:

1) Rear tyres that were mounted the wrong way round: in other words, the right hand tyre being placed where the left hand one should be and vice versa, on the cars that suffered failures. The tyres supplied this year have an asymmetric structure, which means that they are not designed to be interchangeable. The sidewalls are designed in such a way to deal with specific loads on the internal and external sides of the tyre. So swapping the tyres round has an effect on how they work in certain conditions. In particular, the external part is designed to cope with the very high loads that are generated while cornering at a circuit as demanding as Silverstone, with its rapid left-hand bends and some kerbs that are particularly aggressive.

2) The use of tyre pressures that were excessively low or in any case lower than those indicated by Pirelli. Under-inflating the tyres means that the tyre is subjected to more stressful working conditions.

3) The use of extreme camber angles.

4) Kerbing that was particularly aggressive on fast corners, such as that on turn four at Silverstone, which was the scene of most of the failures. Consequently it was the left-rear tyres that were affected.

Wow, way to play it off Pirelli.

But seriously, this is the pinnacle of motorsport, with teams spending hundreds of millions a year. How the hell is it possible at this level that they are still incorrectly installing asymmetric tires, especially when the tires are usually spray painted L or R, and each comes with an unique identifying barcode?

[Redliner]

Wow, way to play it off Pirelli.

But seriously, this is the pinnacle of motorsport, with teams spending hundreds of millions a year. How the hell is it possible at this level that they are still incorrectly installing asymmetric tires, especially when the tires are usually spray painted L or R, and each comes with an unique identifying barcode?

I read that it was being done by design...teams found potential performance gains by mixing the left and right. Since the tires are apart of the suspension movement, I bet the teams found an advantage by running the softer inside tirewall on the outside and practiced doing so.

[_R_]

But seriously, this is the pinnacle of motorsport, with teams spending hundreds of millions a year. How the hell is it possible at this level that they are still incorrectly installing asymmetric tires, especially when the tires are usually spray painted L or R, and each comes with an unique identifying barcode?

In regard to point #1, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Pirelli mount all the tires on the rims then give it back to the teams? In which case, they're at fault for mounting the tires wrong...

On a side note, Pirelli is also the spec tire for WSBK, and one of the major complaints that can't officially be said, so it's "I heard a guy" type thing, is that the tires are all over the map in consistency. Riders are saying the Bridgestones are pretty much spot on from tire to tire in both grip and life, Pirelli's on the other hand are so bad it's almost a roll of the dice as to how the grip levels and life of the tire will be... there will be batches of good tires, then you'll be 2-3 seconds off the pace for no reason on the next set...

[vietlol]

So are tyre pressures etc going to be enforced by the FIA now?

[Redliner]

Evidence of tire swapping below....You can clearly see the "L" barcode, with a "R" painted on it, indicating the teams put the tires on the rim...



http://www.gpupdate....225887/#/225887

I really wish someone would come out and explain the "why's" I mean...my best guess is a difference in tire wall construction might lead to different wheel rates overall that may or may not benefit the car on that circuit. Also maybe the tires were perhaps used in FP or Quali and they are using the tires again so because of excessive wear from camber/toe, they 'flip' the tires? My best 2 hunches..

[Redliner]

Ross Brawn: "You could use it in qualifying and then swap it, and have it in a different condition for the race.
"You cannot do it with these tyres, and I think we were back into going over the limit of the temperature of the tyres and suffering from it.

Looks like flipping the tires for wear was indeed one of the reasons they flipped the tires.

[vietlol]

So we have Hungary in 2 weeks then a 4 week break?

[Redliner]

Sometimes I hate him. Sometimes I love him...

[_R_]

he forgot the turtle shell...

[vietlol]

Pat Symonds replaces Mike Coughlan at Williams Formula 1 team

Wish he could go to a better team

[Redliner]

I know the MB test is water under the bridge now but these quotes struck me and it further makes me believe that MB's secret tire test did not help as much as people have believed, especially if they stuck to Pirelli's plans:

"Marussia took the opportunity to run Chilton in the afternoon of the first day despite restrictions imposed by the FIA on what race drivers can do at the test. The idea is that race drivers put the new Pirelli tyres through their paces ahead of the Hungarian Grand Prix by running tests based on the tyres rather than car development."

"Once details of what race drivers were allowed to do here became apparent, we would have only been able to conduct a very limited programme with Kimi," Lotus trackside operations director Alan Permane explained. "If we were to run him, it would compromise the other development work we want to do with the car here. By running Nico again we'll be able to build on the work already carried out and hopefully be in the best position to develop the E21 ahead of Budapest, whilst also conducting the necessary tyre testing for Pirelli."

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

I know the MB test is water under the bridge now but these quotes struck me and it further makes me believe that MB's secret tire test did not help as much as people have believed, especially if they stuck to Pirelli's plans:

"Marussia took the opportunity to run Chilton in the afternoon of the first day despite restrictions imposed by the FIA on what race drivers can do at the test. The idea is that race drivers put the new Pirelli tyres through their paces ahead of the Hungarian Grand Prix by running tests based on the tyres rather than car development."

"Once details of what race drivers were allowed to do here became apparent, we would have only been able to conduct a very limited programme with Kimi," Lotus trackside operations director Alan Permane explained. "If we were to run him, it would compromise the other development work we want to do with the car here. By running Nico again we'll be able to build on the work already carried out and hopefully be in the best position to develop the E21 ahead of Budapest, whilst also conducting the necessary tyre testing for Pirelli."

They were struggling to get the long run performance out of the Pirelli tires, and after the test they seem to have figured it out. I don't think it was as much a "development" of new parts as much as finding a window of operation that didn't destroy the tires in 3 laps and still maintain a good level of performance. That being said, the teams are allowed to use race drivers for a limited amount of time during the YDT so it doesn't make sense to use them for the tire dev. Bring out the race drivers for development of the car instead.

[Redliner]

They were struggling to get the long run performance out of the Pirelli tires, and after the test they seem to have figured it out. I don't think it was as much a "development" of new parts as much as finding a window of operation that didn't destroy the tires in 3 laps and still maintain a good level of performance. That being said, the teams are allowed to use race drivers for a limited amount of time during the YDT so it doesn't make sense to use them for the tire dev. Bring out the race drivers for development of the car instead.

Which also coincided with tracks that were also cooler which allowed RB's cars to get into the window as well. And then at Nurburgring they were struggling again with the hotter temps.

We'll never know how much information MB got, but I do think that the teams over-played the shit storm...