89 replies to this topic

[Deadpool]

Yeah, race was a farce.


Break rules, keep your position and get a podium. Obey rules, barely make the points.

Typically, Hamilton driving the shit storm. And FIA letting him get away with it. Nothing out of the ordinary I guess, typical day at the F1 office


Mad crash from Webbah, amazed he walked away from that one. Awesome drive from Koby.

[_R_]

Alonso got taken to school by Kobi, and then Kobi just rubbed it in by passing Buemi, which is something Emo couldn't do in his Ferrari. It was awesome seeing a Ferrari power precession with the actual Ferrari as the tail car.

i'm sure koby's 2 lap old soft tires vs alonso's 30+ laps on hard tires had nothing to do with it...

[_R_]

Anyone else agree that the driver of the race was kobayashi?

53 laps on hard tires...
impressive for koby, but exactly what's wrong with f1... canada proved that...

[DocGolem]

In for tires that last 10 laps, refueling reinstated, and KERS next year.

[Redliner]

53 laps on hard tires...
impressive for koby, but exactly what's wrong with f1... canada proved that...

How so? We're getting better racing than we have in a long time, not sure how this is proving that this is 'a problem'?

[_R_]

How so? We're getting better racing than we have in a long time, not sure how this is proving that this is 'a problem'?

seriously?
canada has crazy passing, tire strategies, pits, because the tires didn't last long... softs would go out after 5-10 laps, hards 15-20 laps...
every other race this season has been a parade after the first 4 or 5 laps, barely any passing anywhere...
this race for example... what passing happened besides Koby (which happened during the last 3 laps)?

[Redliner]

seriously?
canada has crazy passing, tire strategies, pits, because the tires didn't last long... softs would go out after 5-10 laps, hards 15-20 laps...
every other race this season has been a parade after the first 4 or 5 laps, barely any passing anywhere...
this race for example... what passing happened besides Koby (which happened during the last 3 laps)?

I disagree. I admit, tires are a little artificial in the way strategies play out and you are forced to run this tire and that tire. I def. don't like that. But the no refueling has been awesome so far, and I think that has more to play with how the tires work than it does how the tires are built. I haven't watched this race yet so I can't full comment but the only unexciting race I've remembered so far this season has been the first race, and I imagine that came down to the teams getting used to full tanks and a set of tires.

Plus, I can't recall so many different winners in so many races (5 now?) where the title hunt looks like it's coming down to the wire. Vettel, Hamilton, Webber, Button and Alonso all have a good chance of breaking through to win. I don't know how you can say that *isn't* exciting.

[Nacho]

Yeah, race was a farce.


Break rules, keep your position and get a podium. Obey rules, barely make the points.

Typically, Hamilton driving the shit storm. And FIA letting him get away with it. Nothing out of the ordinary I guess, typical day at the F1 office

Farce!

The SC barely beat Hamilton to the line, it's not like he juked around the fucking thing while it was on track.

[yonson]

Just finished watching the race and I can't believe I didn't get spoiled! All day TPTB were trying to spoil it for me but alas they were denied

Quite happy Vettel was able to finish P1, even though Hammy had a couple occasions to get past him, Webbah's wreck was glad he was able to walk away... Koby's drive was especially passing Emotardo and Buemi on the last lap!

[_R_]

I haven't watched this race yet

[DrDickAction]

Farce!

The SC barely beat Hamilton to the line, it's not like he juked around the fucking thing while it was on track.

The SC barely beat him to the line because he was timing the fucking thing.

[chiuey]

I disagree. I admit, tires are a little artificial in the way strategies play out and you are forced to run this tire and that tire. I def. don't like that. But the no refueling has been awesome so far, and I think that has more to play with how the tires work than it does how the tires are built. I haven't watched this race yet so I can't full comment but the only unexciting race I've remembered so far this season has been the first race, and I imagine that came down to the teams getting used to full tanks and a set of tires.

Plus, I can't recall so many different winners in so many races (5 now?) where the title hunt looks like it's coming down to the wire. Vettel, Hamilton, Webber, Button and Alonso all have a good chance of breaking through to win. I don't know how you can say that *isn't* exciting.

The reason people can argue that this ISN'T interesting is because we get spoiled easily. However that being said, I think the whole tire situation is still not quite there. The whole tire management thing is a skill these drivers need to learn, but that being said, why would I want to spend a whole 1.5 hours waiting for drivers to reserve tires and wait for them to just fight it out on the last 10 laps? It's a very similar argument to a few yrs ago when you had to qualify with your starting race fuel, and drivers were simply burning fuel for the first half of the session to only come in for fresh tires, lighter tank and then do their qualifying run.

I'm not gonna propose a better solution, quite simply because I don't have one. I am the consumer, it's not my job to dictate how the sport should be run, that job belongs to the commercial rights holders and the FIA. However, I'd like to see a series where a variable of factor can contribute to the out come of a race. I know the FIA (Jean Todt) and Bernie are trying and all kudos to them for getting this far, I don't think Max had this much success during his reign. I think they're on the right track, but as consumers we should hold them to a higher standard and at the end of the day the show will get to that absolutely amazing level where I am gripped at the edge of my seat from the go.

[cafcwest]

Anyone else agree that the driver of the race was kobayashi?

Not Webber?

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

The reason people can argue that this ISN'T interesting is because we get spoiled easily. However that being said, I think the whole tire situation is still not quite there. The whole tire management thing is a skill these drivers need to learn, but that being said, why would I want to spend a whole 1.5 hours waiting for drivers to reserve tires and wait for them to just fight it out on the last 10 laps? It's a very similar argument to a few yrs ago when you had to qualify with your starting race fuel, and drivers were simply burning fuel for the first half of the session to only come in for fresh tires, lighter tank and then do their qualifying run.

I'm not gonna propose a better solution, quite simply because I don't have one. I am the consumer, it's not my job to dictate how the sport should be run, that job belongs to the commercial rights holders and the FIA. However, I'd like to see a series where a variable of factor can contribute to the out come of a race. I know the FIA (Jean Todt) and Bernie are trying and all kudos to them for getting this far, I don't think Max had this much success during his reign. I think they're on the right track, but as consumers we should hold them to a higher standard and at the end of the day the show will get to that absolutely amazing level where I am gripped at the edge of my seat from the go.

The problem right now is that the tire degredation balance benefits staying out and going slower for less pit stops rather than going all out and making those extra pit stops. If the performance difference between fresh and worn tires were wider then maybe it might push the balance towards going all out and making that extra pit stop, or those that stayed out on old tires would get slaughtered by guys who stopped for fresh rubber, without the time difference being that large. The recipe seemed to work in Canada, and it produced a pretty good race.
I guess one could always say "just raise the pit speed limit" but its there for safety reasons so that's a definite

[Redliner]

The reason people can argue that this ISN'T interesting is because we get spoiled easily. However that being said, I think the whole tire situation is still not quite there. The whole tire management thing is a skill these drivers need to learn, but that being said, why would I want to spend a whole 1.5 hours waiting for drivers to reserve tires and wait for them to just fight it out on the last 10 laps? It's a very similar argument to a few yrs ago when you had to qualify with your starting race fuel, and drivers were simply burning fuel for the first half of the session to only come in for fresh tires, lighter tank and then do their qualifying run.

I'm not gonna propose a better solution, quite simply because I don't have one. I am the consumer, it's not my job to dictate how the sport should be run, that job belongs to the commercial rights holders and the FIA. However, I'd like to see a series where a variable of factor can contribute to the out come of a race. I know the FIA (Jean Todt) and Bernie are trying and all kudos to them for getting this far, I don't think Max had this much success during his reign. I think they're on the right track, but as consumers we should hold them to a higher standard and at the end of the day the show will get to that absolutely amazing level where I am gripped at the edge of my seat from the go.

Here's the thing though, although that played out to be true in Bahrain, it hasn't been like that since then. One of the first clear races where it was dry and they had to push all the way had been Turkey. And even before the Webber / Vettel incident, you had 4 cars, within 2 sec of each other from front to tail all pushing hard to the end. Had Vettel & Webber not have rammed each other, we could've had 4 cars fighting for the lead at the end...

Honestly, I'm not sure how you can please every single fan on here. I have really enjoyed this season so far though - they've all been good. We have 5 drivers fight for the championship, 3 teams fighting for the constructors and not one FIA / team war going on. What more do you expect? For as long as I've been watching F1, this has probably been the most pure F1 seasons in a LONG time with no silly off-track drama nor just 2 teams steam-rolling the competition.

[Nacho]

The SC barely beat him to the line because he was timing the fucking thing.

Alonso's just mad he got caught out. I have no doubt that he would have done the exact same shit if the positions were reversed.

[DrDickAction]

Alonso's just mad he got caught out. I have no doubt that he would have done the exact same shit if the positions were reversed.

I have no doubt that he would have radio'd about it and told to not be a dick, like Monaco.

Of course that does bring up the distinct possibility that hammy did radio about it and was told to do it, then lie about it

[Nacho]

I have no doubt that he would have radio'd about it and told to not be a dick, like Monaco.

Of course that does bring up the distinct possibility that hammy did radio about it and was told to do it, then lie about it

Radio transmissions are unencrypted, so someone would have heard it.

[chiuey]

The problem right now is that the tire degredation balance benefits staying out and going slower for less pit stops rather than going all out and making those extra pit stops. If the performance difference between fresh and worn tires were wider then maybe it might push the balance towards going all out and making that extra pit stop, or those that stayed out on old tires would get slaughtered by guys who stopped for fresh rubber, without the time difference being that large. The recipe seemed to work in Canada, and it produced a pretty good race.
I guess one could always say "just raise the pit speed limit" but its there for safety reasons so that's a definite

I think that might be the optimal solution, but it doesn't work for the tire manufacturers in terms of their sales strategy. After all they are in the sport to make some money, and who can sell a tire that doesn't last?

Here's the thing though, although that played out to be true in Bahrain, it hasn't been like that since then. One of the first clear races where it was dry and they had to push all the way had been Turkey. And even before the Webber / Vettel incident, you had 4 cars, within 2 sec of each other from front to tail all pushing hard to the end. Had Vettel & Webber not have rammed each other, we could've had 4 cars fighting for the lead at the end...

Honestly, I'm not sure how you can please every single fan on here. I have really enjoyed this season so far though - they've all been good. We have 5 drivers fight for the championship, 3 teams fighting for the constructors and not one FIA / team war going on. What more do you expect? For as long as I've been watching F1, this has probably been the most pure F1 seasons in a LONG time with no silly off-track drama nor just 2 teams steam-rolling the competition.

Well that's the thing, they cannot please all the fan and their effort though valiant still leaves room for improvement. I'm definitely not saying the season sucks, it's still better than most for as long as I can remember and I have been watching F1 for over 15 years. But I am saying that it's still missing something to make the race a little less processional.

Maybe Kero has nailed it on the head, maybe that last missing thing is getting the tire degredation and performance balance right. However, there has been no push to find out what's that last missing factor is making F1 absolutely mind blowing.

I think the show is almost perfect, and that's my argument. They shouldn't stop here, push the sport some more, find out what really works. We saw a glimpse of it in Canada, I want to see more of it. Maybe Bridgestone just need to try some crazy shit and bring out some weird compounds. I don't know, I'm not the expert. But the FIA and FOM shouldn't get complacent with the way F1 is now. It can be better, and they can do it.

[Redliner]

I think that might be the optimal solution, but it doesn't work for the tire manufacturers in terms of their sales strategy. After all they are in the sport to make some money, and who can sell a tire that doesn't last?





Well that's the thing, they cannot please all the fan and their effort though valiant still leaves room for improvement. I'm definitely not saying the season sucks, it's still better than most for as long as I can remember and I have been watching F1 for over 15 years. But I am saying that it's still missing something to make the race a little less processional.

Maybe Kero has nailed it on the head, maybe that last missing thing is getting the tire degredation and performance balance right. However, there has been no push to find out what's that last missing factor is making F1 absolutely mind blowing.

I think the show is almost perfect, and that's my argument. They shouldn't stop here, push the sport some more, find out what really works. We saw a glimpse of it in Canada, I want to see more of it. Maybe Bridgestone just need to try some crazy shit and bring out some weird compounds. I don't know, I'm not the expert. But the FIA and FOM shouldn't get complacent with the way F1 is now. It can be better, and they can do it.

I am almost hesitant to let them keep changing the rules b/c we need some rules stability and as we are seeing now, the rules are becoming even more gimmicky. Movable rear wings and push-to-pass buttons makes F1 more of a video game rather than the ultimate racing challenge.

[Nacho]

I am almost hesitant to let them keep changing the rules b/c we need some rules stability and as we are seeing now, the rules are becoming even more gimmicky. Movable rear wings and push-to-pass buttons makes F1 more of a video game rather than the ultimate racing challenge.

I was going to say: The FIA/FOM have been tinkering with just about everything as long as I can remember.

I REALLY don't like the rear wing deal. I think that's gimmicky as fuck to give all the advantages in straightline speed to the following car.

[chiuey]

I am almost hesitant to let them keep changing the rules b/c we need some rules stability and as we are seeing now, the rules are becoming even more gimmicky. Movable rear wings and push-to-pass buttons makes F1 more of a video game rather than the ultimate racing challenge.

I was going to say: The FIA/FOM have been tinkering with just about everything as long as I can remember.
I REALLY don't like the rear wing deal. I think that's gimmicky as fuck to give all the advantages in straightline speed to the following car.

for the better part of the last 10 years they have tinkered a lot and I do think the results are getting better. I know there are a lot of gimmick crap in F1, but that's just the price we pay for perfections. Look at how many times they have tinkered with the quali format? But now it's pretty damn awesome don't u think?

Shit rules will come and go, good rules will stay. I think within 5 yrs we'll really see a season that's gripping from the very start. And if I have to sit through a few more shit rules, so be it, it's not like we haven't had a shit rules before, and there racing is still there. One can argue the racing has always been there, but the rule changes have made racing that much closer.

[Nacho]

for the better part of the last 10 years they have tinkered a lot and I do think the results are getting better. I know there are a lot of gimmick crap in F1, but that's just the price we pay for perfections. Look at how many times they have tinkered with the quali format? But now it's pretty damn awesome don't u think?

Shit rules will come and go, good rules will stay. I think within 5 yrs we'll really see a season that's gripping from the very start. And if I have to sit through a few more shit rules, so be it, it's not like we haven't had a shit rules before, and there racing is still there. One can argue the racing has always been there, but the rule changes have made racing that much closer.

Wait, what's wrong with this season?

Fuck, next year Mercedes will have the $ to have developed their new car, and FI could very well step up their game along with Renault, and give us a real 6 way fight for wins. And that's without touching the rules now.

[_R_]

Wait, what's wrong with this season?

tires...
put it this way... with the lack of fueling and pitstops we have to wait for the tires to go out before anything happens... alonso @ monaco did like 70 laps on the hards, koby @ valencia did 54 laps on the hards... they last way to long...

since valencia was the last race...
how was the fight for first? oh that's right, none
fight for second? yeap, none
third? again, nothing, why would jenson challenge koby if he knew he'd have to go in to change tires
battle for fourth? fifth? sixth? nothing...

where did we see the battle and over taking? 7th, between alonso, koby and buemi... why was it a battle? because koby had a fresh set of soft tires for the last four laps while buemi and alonso where putting along on hard tires for at least 30+ laps... alonso couldn't pass buemi, but koby comes out of no where and passes both...

once these guys get their gap in the beginning, nothing happens for the rest of the race because either tire can pretty much go race distance...so they pull a gap and disappear off into the distance

then comes canada which was the best race of this season (anyone care to argue on that one?) and what was the main reason for that? tires that went out quickly... softs were faster but for a limited time, hards lasted longer but provided less grip. there was passing all over the place, crazy pit stops, insane strategies..

sure, tires might be an artificial fix, but at least it provides a race that's entertaining to watch... as much as i like to see the top 4 or 5 guys parade around waiting for something to happen (assuming something happens), i prefer to see them slicing and dicing...

[Redliner]

Wait, what's wrong with this season?

Fuck, next year Mercedes will have the $ to have developed their new car, and FI could very well step up their game along with Renault, and give us a real 6 way fight for wins. And that's without touching the rules now.

I say leave the rules as is.

*IF* I were to make rule changes, I'd like to see more development to powerplants & chassis and less emphasis on aero. It's hard to relate to the cars when all they talk about are F-ducts, double diffusers, blown diffusers. In MotoGP, they talk about brakes, shocks and different types of powerplants. At least I can relate to that; I can't put a blown diffuser on my S2000...

So how would we achieve this?

Spec aero & diffusers that are equal to current downforce levels. Body shape is open. Unlimited powerplant configuration under a 1.5 turbo/3.0L NA rule. No refuelling with a certain amount of gas given to the teams during the weekend and they must survive 2 races as currently and must meet a minimum 750hp limit. This would take the development emphasis from aero back to engine and allow us to see some cool shit IMO.