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Belgian GP thread


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#301 _R_

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 10:06 PM

Forgive Them, For They Not Know What They Have Done
Sunday 7th September 2008

This is not what sport or F1 is meant to be. Winning a race should be a black-and-white business. The driver of the car that crosses the line in first place is the winner and the glory is his. End of story. It is a sacrosanct principle and any violation of it can only be considered - let alone applied - in the most extreme of circumstances and with the supported of the most overwhelming weight of evidence. The results of a grand prix should be determined, like in any other sport, in its sporting arena, not in unseen backrooms by unknown officials. For that is politics, not sport, not F1.

This is the void and guiding principle that the race stewards of the Belgian GP leapt over - by their own impetus, it should be noted, for there was no protest made by Ferrari or any of McLaren's other competitors - when they delivered their notification of 'an investigation into an incident between cars 1 and 22' just at the moment Lewis Hamilton was being physically blocked by a Spa race official from celebrating victory with his McLaren engineers. That moment in the pits - the pits, a jobsworth denying the appreciation of sporting achievement - would gain a poignant resonance as night fell. Winning the already-quickly-forgotten Greatest Grand Prix in Living Memory will be the cause of obituaries rather than celebration.

The blurring of the distinction between politics and sport in F1 had already become a popular lament long before Sunday. F1 is a spectacularly political sport. Yet rarely, if ever, has it made such a leap from one to the other based on so little. For where is the justification in stripping Hamilton of victory? No, do not misread 'where' for 'what' nor confuse the plea for justification as the herald for further debate on whether Hamilton gained an advantage after he cut the chicane. Instead, consider the lack of justification cited by the stewards, who, remaining cloaked in anonymity, are still yet to offer any explanation for their punishment other than cite the terms of the offence and announce its punishment. Not a word of insight has been forthcoming, nor a single piece of telemetry or testimony in support.

Given their absolute abuse of sport's most absolute principle, that silence is deafening. If the decision to strip Hamilton of his victory was to be made then the evidence had to be overwhelming, so clinical that it prevented any dissent. That none has been supplied, that identifying the winner of the Belgian GP has been reduced to a matter of debate, lays the sport bare.

And the debate will rage on, as perplexing as well as an unacceptable state of affairs given that the terms of the debate are unknown. For what is it that Hamilton has been found guilty of? Observing, as per the 30-word press release the FIA filed announcing that the result of the Belgian GP was no longer the result of the Belgian GP, that Hamilton was guilty of "cutting the chicane" tells us nothing that none of us have not already seen. The stewards - and their Ferrari-supporting apologists - might well retort that they do not have to provide any commentary other than a verdict. But that misses the point and avoids entirely the repercussions and significance of a decision which makes explanation essential.

Is it that Hamilton has been punished for deliberately seeking an advantage by deliberately steering over the chicane? Or is it for inadvertently gaining an advantage by avoiding an avoidable accident? Is it for gaining an advantage but not satisfactorily or adequately surrendering it? Or is it that he has been found guilty of exploiting an advantage that was neither his by right nor no longer in his possession, deemed to have broken the spirit of the rules if not the wording?

Or is it due to motives altogether different, altogether more political? It must be, for, in the absence of all other explanation, only that suspicion can begin to explain the desecration of what was once a sport.

Pete Gill



#302 mads

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 10:29 PM

as much as i fucking hate hamilton, that result is bullshit.
I lold at first but then i realized someone that posed any kind of threat during the race to either of the battling drivers was awarded the race win.
id rather have seen bourdais fucking win it then massa. or even nicky

#303 F1

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 10:34 PM

Who is Pete Gill and where is that from? He's good with the words.

#304 Dr. Jimmmah!

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 11:10 PM

Posted Image

#305 Shi

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 11:33 PM

That's is all its about, its about gaining an advantage. If you watch it again, Hamilton could have stopped or slowed considerably in the chicane to avoid Kimi. He just saw cutting the chicane as the better alternative. Would he have done the same if there was a wall/grass there? This has been argued for the incident back at France. I dont know about letting Heidfeld pass him but rules are rules and Hamilton likes bending them.



Oh P.S: FUCK YEAH for quick nick!

This is my point - Hamilton wasn't ahead before the chicane, and Kimi had the inside line going into the chicane, so you can't really blame Kimi for blocking the pass

In my view Hamilton did benefit from cutting the chicane, but that doesn't justify the stewards' decision

edit: having checked what the stewards' got up to in GP2, I'm not really surprised anymore :bowrofl:

#306 Shi

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 11:54 PM

Also, I suspect Felipe was happy to just sit back this race with his revs turned down, after the engine failures in Hungary and Valencia...

#307 doublemeat

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 01:29 AM

FIA

Ferrari's Interests Always

#308 psykosis

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 03:17 AM

Posted Image



:werd::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

#309 Skyliner

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 09:53 AM

If nothing else, this was good for board activity. :werd:

#310 Shi

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 12:09 PM

James Allen:

"Hamilton cuts the chicane because he was pushed out wide – quite fairly – by Kimi Raikkonen; his trajectory makes it hard for him to follow the Ferrari around the corner and, faced with going on the grass, he chose instead to cut the chicane.

It’s a deliberate act on his part, amazing speed of thought, but he clearly chooses the least worst option.

He is therefore in front coming out of the chicane, but crucially he is on a line he would not have been on had he taken the chicane normally.

Although he clearly hands back the lead to Kimi as they cross the start/finish line and the timing sheets show you that Kimi clearly crossed the line first, he is on him immediately afterwards.

And this is the nub of the stewards’ argument.

Raikkonen’s car did get fully in front of Hamilton’s – his speed across the start/finish line was 212km/h, compared to 206km/h for Hamilton – but Lewis immediately regains the momentum."

"The stewards clearly felt that he didn’t give back enough of the advantage he gained from cutting the chicane.

Watching it over and over again you can see what they mean; it’s a very delicately balanced call."

but the rest of his article goes on to say how it's a shit decision :werd:

#311 psykosis

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 01:59 PM

that video of the last 5 or 6 laps is pulled from youtube.

anyone have a copy of it?

#312 Nacho

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 01:57 AM

that video of the last 5 or 6 laps is pulled from youtube.

anyone have a copy of it?

Back and forth, from the incident to Kimi eating it.



Get it while it's hot.

#313 DrDickAction

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 03:02 AM

If nothing else, this was good for board activity. :werd:

seriously....all kinds of people I forgot were on this board came out of nowhere.

#314 psykosis

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 04:18 PM

Back and forth, from the incident to Kimi eating it.



Get it while it's hot.



gone again.


I ended up just downloading the whole race.


Wish I could get the copy from Speed though.

#315 rlolz

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 10:58 PM

poor kimmah :p

#316 rlolz

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 11:15 PM

In for Kimi fingering Ferrari and not playing support boy to Massa. :p

#317 vietlol

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 12:48 AM

Considering kimi only won the championchip last year because massa backed off in brazil to let him through. I think it would be extremely childish of kimi not to do the sama for massa now since he is surely the only hope ferrari have to retain wdc.




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