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2012 Grand Prix of Brazil


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#51 _R_

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:50 PM

I was talking about this with a co-worker (the one guy that watches F1 in my company), and we were both thinking about the last time McLaren won a Constructors 'chip... the car is always up front, but even during Kimi's days, it was super fragile... fast as fuck, but not consistant in reliability...

Ferrari on the other hand is reliable, just starts off the season too slow... if you combined McLaren's development with Ferrari's reliability, you'd end up with Red Bull :mamoru:

Alonso and Ferrari are a match made in heaven personality wise, both will do anything to win, but not a "good" type of anything, more of a "slimy" type of anything...

#52 Dr. Jimmmah!

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:29 PM

Ferrari hasn't gone to total shit, RBR has just been better than everyone since the 2nd half of 2010.

This. I mean it's not like teams like Williams, FI or Mercedes have outperformed Ferrari. The problem is their wind tunnel (which used to be state of the art in the 2000s) is now severely outdated in the 2010s. With F1 being so aero-sensitive these days that's what makes the difference. I seriously doubt that RB (both Ross and Rory) returning to Ferrari right now would solve those problems.

Also the testing bans haven't helped. They used to be able to test at Fiorano regularly to verify wind tunnel data and fix things when it wasn't 100%, now they don't have that luxury.


This brings to mind the question: how successful could USF1 have been, considering they would have access to Windshear?

Basically the only designer who has proven that he can keep on building winning car after winning car since test ban rules were instated is Adrian Newey. The guy somehow can solve these problems in his head magically.

#53 _R_

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:35 PM

Basically the only designer who has proven that he can keep on building winning car after winning car since test ban rules were instated is Adrian Newey. The guy somehow can solve these problems in his head magically.


and since next years rules are pretty much the same, the RB9 being an evolution of this year... RB already has an advantage... Ferrari still need to sort out their car, and McLaren need to fix the reliability. The only glitch at RB is the alternator issue that Renault needs to fix...

RB and Lotus pretty much just need to evolve their car
Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes need to fix their stuff...

#54 Redliner

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:50 PM

To me, the quickest overall car this year was the McLaren. If you look back at this year, McLaren gave up more races than anyone else. Really, McLaren let this championship fall through their hands to be honest. How many races did LH and JB retire out of this year? They just don't have their act together whatsoever it seems. They didn't just lose it because of reliability, they lost it in the pits at the beginning of the season too. Whatever they're doing, they need to step up to the plate and make less mistakes.

The Ferrari/Lotus/Red Bull have probably worked together best as a team. Which is important, but of course the advantage is skewed towards Red Bull because they came on song during that last half of the season.

Having said that, I think Ferrari has made a whole lot less mistakes this year as a whole, but now their car isn't up to par. (So I take that statement back about what I said about Domenacalli earlier...). Yes, Ferrari took it to the line twice now, but they're always missing something, whether it was the car or the team making mistakes...so they need to tighten up loose ends. Using Toyota's wind tunnel should help them greatly for next years car.

Also, I disagree that the RB9 will have a headstart. The McLaren is already strong, and the Ferrari is strong in race pace. And with no rules changes for next year, I think we'll see even tighter racing as the teams only become more and more familiar w/ the cars and the tires.

Here's what I hope...I hope that Pirelli manages to get rid of the marbling issues they have - giving drivers multiple lines into a corner + KERS + DRS = Fantastic racing. Guys, we're in the golden age of racing right now :bowdown:

#55 Dr. Jimmmah!

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:03 PM

With stable rules rb will see their advantage go away to an extent. It becomes exponentially harder to find time the closer you are to perfection. IMO the racing will be even closer next year.

#56 Dr. Jimmmah!

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:03 AM



#57 Redliner

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:19 AM



I came to post just that :bowrofl::bowrofl:

#58 chiuey

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:19 AM

Having said that, I think Ferrari has made a whole lot less mistakes this year as a whole, but now their car isn't up to par. (So I take that statement back about what I said about Domenacalli earlier...). Yes, Ferrari took it to the line twice now, but they're always missing something, whether it was the car or the team making mistakes...so they need to tighten up loose ends. Using Toyota's wind tunnel should help them greatly for next years car.


Looking at the amount Ferrari spends every year, for every yr that they don't win the 'chip, it's a failure. For what ever reason, there is always someone to blame whether it's the drivers, the wind tunnel, pit stops... All that are just excuses at the end of the day.

If I was Luca de Mozzarella, heads would have rolled long before now. Why would anyone pay for a inferior product? Why is Ferrari spending the most on the grid to come in second all the damn time? I know it's impossible to win the chip every year unless you have an alien working for you called Andrian Newey, but Ferrari should never go 3 yrs without a 'chip in the pocket. Second or lower for 5 yrs in running is just not acceptable. And the same goes for McLaren

#59 Dr. Jimmmah!

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:37 AM

Looking at the amount Ferrari spends every year, for every yr that they don't win the 'chip, it's a failure. For what ever reason, there is always someone to blame whether it's the drivers, the wind tunnel, pit stops... All that are just excuses at the end of the day.

If I was Luca de Mozzarella, heads would have rolled long before now. Why would anyone pay for a inferior product? Why is Ferrari spending the most on the grid to come in second all the damn time? I know it's impossible to win the chip every year unless you have an alien working for you called Andrian Newey, but Ferrari should never go 3 yrs without a 'chip in the pocket. Second or lower for 5 yrs in running is just not acceptable. And the same goes for McLaren

They went some 20 years without a chip at one point till Schumacher fixed that, and Enzo was alive for some of that stint... I suppose they should have offed that guy too, according to your logic. Afterall, the guy had the audacity to sit there at the helm from '79 till his death in '88 without seeing a single drivers championship.

To say ANY team regardless of expenditure should be claiming championships every 3 years if they are spending top dollar is a bit of a stretch. Mercedes have been ramping up expenses for the past few years but still no change in the results. I would bet that even if they had the biggest budget the championship wouldn't be there by 2015 without a major shakeup in the technical regulations.

#60 Nacho

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:33 PM

Here's what I hope...I hope that Pirelli manages to get rid of the marbling issues they have - giving drivers multiple lines into a corner + KERS + DRS = Fantastic racing. Guys, we're in the golden age of racing right now :bowdown:


Not sure how they can get away from marbling, especially if the tires are meant to degrade quicker over time to give real performance differentiation.

#61 Nacho

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

Looking at the amount Ferrari spends every year, for every yr that they don't win the 'chip, it's a failure. For what ever reason, there is always someone to blame whether it's the drivers, the wind tunnel, pit stops... All that are just excuses at the end of the day.

If I was Luca de Mozzarella, heads would have rolled long before now. Why would anyone pay for a inferior product? Why is Ferrari spending the most on the grid to come in second all the damn time? I know it's impossible to win the chip every year unless you have an alien working for you called Andrian Newey, but Ferrari should never go 3 yrs without a 'chip in the pocket. Second or lower for 5 yrs in running is just not acceptable. And the same goes for McLaren


Red Bull spends more than anyone else, at the moment. Hence their being in questionable standing with the RRA.

#62 Nacho

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:38 PM

I do agree with that to a certain extent, but they've come within spitting distance of 2 chips over the past 3 years - 3/5 if you include '08.

McLaren hasn't done a whole hell of a lot lately either. I suppose you can blame that on the Dennis/Whitmarsh transition, but it seems too coincidental that both Ferrari and Macca would be mediocre at the same time.

Ferrari hasn't gone to total shit, RBR has just been better than everyone since the 2nd half of 2010.

2nd half of 2009 is when their car started to find it's pace. If not for McLaren/Lewis' resurgence in late 2009 taking points off RBR, RB could have come back on Brawn that year, due to the latter's lack of development cash/resources.

#63 Redliner

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:08 PM

Not sure how they can get away from marbling, especially if the tires are meant to degrade quicker over time to give real performance differentiation.


Some tracks are better at it, some worse. Not sure why...for example, Austin was great at that, no marbling whatsoever. So you saw a lot of passes in places where it traditionally wouldn't have been attempted.

Not sure if you saw afterwards, but Lewis went WAY off track to collect marbles after the race for weight and still came up with pretty clean tires, lol.

#64 DrDickAction

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:30 PM

2nd half of 2009 is when their car started to find it's pace. If not for McLaren/Lewis' resurgence in late 2009 taking points off RBR, RB could have come back on Brawn that year, due to the latter's lack of development cash/resources.

Fair point.

Some tracks are better at it, some worse. Not sure why...for example, Austin was great at that, no marbling whatsoever. So you saw a lot of passes in places where it traditionally wouldn't have been attempted.

Not sure if you saw afterwards, but Lewis went WAY off track to collect marbles after the race for weight and still came up with pretty clean tires, lol.


I think that was more due to pirelli bringing the hardest 2 compounds, less to do with the aggregate/tarmac.

#65 Nacho

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:11 AM

I think that was more due to pirelli bringing the hardest 2 compounds, less to do with the aggregate/tarmac.

This, although the finishing top coat at Austin was slicker than what was being run on by the end of the weekend.




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