73 replies to this topic

[Nacho]

all this shit will blow over by sunday, and all those people that said they'd give up on f1 because of the ruling will continue to watch f1 just like they did after stephneygate and all the other dramas in the past...

i cant wait to get back to discussing racing*...

*Pending FIA approval.

fixed.

[chiuey]

fixed.

[MrHahn]

"Jarno Trulli says he has no doubts that Lewis Hamilton did gain an advantage by cutting the chicane at the Belgian Grand Prix.

As the controversy rages over whether the race stewards were right to hand down a 25-second penalty for Hamilton's driving, Trulli thinks that the McLaren driver did benefit from missing out the final corner.

"In my opinion Hamilton got an advantage by cutting the chicane," Trulli told Gazzetta dello Sport. "Had he stayed on the road, he wouldn't have had the speed to overtake the Ferrari.

"In the same way at Monza someone could cut the first chicane, catch a rival's draft, and overtake him under braking at Roggia.

"When you attack on the outside, you do it at your own risk, because who's on the inside has the right to do the corner. If there isn't enough room, then you lift.

"Had there been a wall there, instead of the surfaced escape route, would Lewis have attacked anyway? Had there been gravel, he wouldn't have had the chance to attack when rejoining the track because of dirty tyres."

McLaren are due to decide today whether or not to press ahead with their plans to appeal Hamilton's penalty, which dropped him from first to third in the race results."

Trulli

Trulli, GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!




Oh by the way, in that video it shows what a wanker Hamilton is. "Kimi hit me at La Source and I almost spun". When you watch the video theres no opposite lock or any of that shit - looks like he took the hairpin normally. Girl.

[marone]

uh thats one move.

blocking the inside line then resuming the natural cornering line.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

uh thats one move.

blocking the inside line then resuming the natural cornering line.

it would be 1 if he had chosen to exit kemmel on the racing line, but he did not, so technically there is two not counting returning to the racing line to turn into les combes.

either way, kimi did a double block into the hairpin.. so whatever, this is all irrelevant.

[F1]

uh thats one move.

blocking the inside line then resuming the natural cornering line.

Not to mention that that angle makes it look close, in the other video Kimi is like 5-7 car lengths behind.

[More&Faster]

it would be 1 if he had chosen to exit kemmel on the racing line, but he did not, so technically there is two not counting returning to the racing line to turn into les combes.

either way, kimi did a double block into the hairpin.. so whatever, this is all irrelevant.

it wasn't a block regardless because kimi wasn't close enough behind. lewis was just trying to keep kimi out of his draft.

[Dazed1]

http://www.dailymoti...iltonkimi_sport

Hamilton didn't even give Kimi back 1 car length after cutting the chicane.

That definitely deserved a penalty.

After looking at that, yup, he wouldnt have been able to overtake him. He didnt slow down at all after he cut the chicane.

[F1]

After looking at that, yup, he wouldnt have been able to overtake him. He didnt slow down at all after he cut the chicane.

Then how did Kimi get back in front? Magic?

enault director of engineering Pat Symonds believes Lewis Hamilton was hard done with his Belgian Grand Prix penalty - and reckons the controversy will only harm attempts to make the sport more exciting.

Speaking on the official Renault podcast Formula One podcast in the wake of Hamilton being stripped of victory for gaining an advantage by cutting a chicane, the highly respected Symonds sees nothing wrong with the way that Hamilton let Raikkonen retake the lead as they battled at Spa-Francorchamps.

And although rubbishing accusations in the media and from fans that the penalty was evidence of a bias towards Ferrari by F1's chiefs, he thinks there are implications from the controversy that could result in drivers being less willing to take risks in the future.

"As it happened in real time, we were talking on the intercom and said: 'Wow that was definitely a situation where he has to give the place back,'" he said. "I guess we weren't that surprised when the stewards were found to be investigating it. Having looked at it again, I feel very, very sorry for Lewis. I think he has been very hard done
by.

"It raises lots of interesting questions, and I am not talking about 'Are the FIA on the side of Ferrari?' We have to believe that they are impartial, the sport would not exist if we didn't believe that. But I think it does call into question [the sport's] philosophy, because everyone is saying we need more overtaking in Formula One, we need more excitement, and we need more personalities.

"And yet it seems to me that everything that actually happens seems to be against that.

"Here we had a great race with people really challenging each other and for why? If it's taken away, then why take that risk?"

Symonds has looked at video replays of the incident since Sunday's race and now believes that Hamilton had complied with the rules and not gained an advantage by cutting the chicane.

"To me the facts are quite clear in retrospect. I have had a look at the videos, I've had a look at the published data which shows that Lewis was nearly 7 km/h slower than Raikkonen across the line, you can quite clearly see on the in-car camera that he lets him get completely in front, and in my view Raikkonen just braked very early.

"Lewis went inside him, and if you look at the in-car camera stuff, Lewis drove around the hairpin very easily. He didn't have a big slide, he didn't have to correct it, he hadn't gone in too deep and come out wide, it was a perfectly legitimate manouevre, and it wasn't that much later that Raikkonen went past him.

"This is racing, this is what we want."

And Symonds believes that more should be done to improve the speed by which decisions are made.

"I think motor racing should be like football, not like cricket," he said, with stewards taking two hours to decide on Hamilton's punishment on Sunday night. "Let's have action, let's know what is going on in real time, not wait for two days to find out the result."

[_R_]

after looking at the video... Kimi had the inside line for the chicane, Lewis should've let off. also, it don't really think Hamilton really let Kimi by... he never lifted once he got all 4 wheels back on the clean track, Kimi just had a better run out from the chicane to pass him, Lewis drafted and cut inside...

that said... i still think the penalty was excessive

[F1]

after looking at the video... Kimi had the inside line for the chicane, Lewis should've let off. also, it don't really think Hamilton really let Kimi by... he never lifted once he got all 4 wheels back on the clean track, Kimi just had a better run out from the chicane to pass him, Lewis drafted and cut inside...

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

[_R_]

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

i edited that post... regardless the penalty was excessive, give him a grid penalty not dock him the win...

[F1]

i edited that post... regardless the penalty was excessive, give him a grid penalty not dock him the win...

That's fine, but if it's true that Lewis was 7km/h slower at the start finish line then there's no way he could have caught up to Kimi on speed alone in that short of a distance in two basically equal cars. The fact is that Kimi messed up, braked early, and for whatever reason cut to the outside. Had he maintained the inside line instead of diving to the left then lewis wouldn't have passed.

[Nacho]

That's fine, but if it's true that Lewis was 7km/h slower at the start finish line then there's no way he could have caught up to Kimi on speed alone in that short of a distance in two basically equal cars. The fact is that Kimi messed up, braked early, and for whatever reason cut to the outside. Had he maintained the inside line instead of diving to the left then lewis wouldn't have passed.

Fucking dot.

[kngrsll]

that onboard footage is just these guys really drive with their balls...

[_R_]

That's fine, but if it's true that Lewis was 7km/h slower at the start finish line then there's no way he could have caught up to Kimi on speed alone in that short of a distance in two basically equal cars.

did you see the first minute of the video where Lewis was eating up the gap like a fat chick at an all you can eat? either the McLaren had speed or Kimi just gave up the last 4-5 laps...

[Nacho]

did you see the first minute of the video where Lewis was eating up the gap like a fat chick at an all you can eat? either the McLaren had speed or Kimi just gave up the last 4-5 laps...

Remember that the McLaren works better in the cold. You could see it as the tires came up to temp after the pit stop, when Lewis was eating up the gap. Then as the rain just started to barely fall and the tire temps started to go away, the McMerc probably came back into the advantage.

That's my theory anyway.

[Shi]

low temps + rain + harder prime tires for last stint = mclaren advantage

I remember Ferrari and Toyota were publicly critical of Bridgestone for choosing such hard tires for the last races

[kngrsll]

Remember that the McLaren works better in the cold. You could see it as the tires came up to temp after the pit stop, when Lewis was eating up the gap. Then as the rain just started to barely fall and the tire temps started to go away, the McMerc probably came back into the advantage.

That's my theory anyway.

yeah, dead on... the mclaren has a big advantage in the cooler weather. its ironic bc a few years ago, the mclaren struggled with getting heat into its tires.

[_R_]

Formula One drivers agreed on Thursday that Lewis Hamilton had taken advantage from jumping a chicane at the Belgian Grand Prix, although some reckon the penalty was perhaps too hard.

"What happened is that he took an advantage by cutting the chicane," said Ferrari's Felipe Massa, who inherited the win after Hamilton was given a 25-second penalty after the race.

"You can ask drivers how many overtaking moves you see there.

"None between the last corner and the first corner, because there is such a small straight there. That is my opinion and it doesn't change."

Toro Rosso's Sebastien Bourdais said rules were rules.

"I think it is very clear, the rules are clear," he said. "Maybe the penalty is very hard but he has made the same mistake twice, he did in Magny-Cours and he did it in Spa.

"I don't really understand why there is such a mess around it, there is a rule book and everyone has to obey the same thing. The penalty is rough but it is up to you to give the position back."

Williams driver Nico Rosberg added: "He did have an advantage because he would not be so close if he had not cut the chicane but the penalty was a bit harsh as it did not have a big result in the end result. But it won't stop us from trying to attack definitely."

Toyota's Jarno Trulli agreed that the penalty may have been too harsh.

"I agree the penalty was quite big but I am not a steward. But it is also clear he got an advantage," he said.

"The rules are very clear, if you cut the chicane you get the advantage you have to drop it and lose advantage, in Lewis' case he should not attack in the first corner that is it.

"This last chicane, they have a lot of run off area they give you more chance to attack because in case of mistake you won't end up in wall or gravel. We have more chance to overtake."

Giancarlo Fisichella added: "I just seen pictures so difficult for me to say if it is right or not what happened. For sure maybe he took a small advantage that is why he had the possibility to overtake him again in braking for Turn One, but obviously 25 seconds penalty was quite a strong penalty."

[f1manoz]

I quite dislike Hamilton. Made it known since day dot. He's a right gobshite who should learn to just let his driving tell the story. He's clearly going to be a great driver.

But I think the decision last week was pure bullshit. Forget about conspiracy theories. The FIA whinge about lack of overtaking and boring racing. But whenever there is an overtake or a collision, a driver ends up penalised. What kind of bullshit is that? No wonder drivers just wait for the pit stops, if they think 'Well, if I do hit the other guy while trying to pass, I'll probably get a drive through.'

Going to the specific incident, Hamilton followed the letter of the law. He cut the chicane - after bieng forced to by Raikkonen , which appears to have been missed in all the debates - so let's him back through. He then passed Raikkonen again. Where's the problem?

Some say Hamilton had an advantage because of cutting the chicane. Bullshit. Raikkonen could easily have held Hamilton behind him going into La Source. But he got spooked by Hamilton and was passed very easily. He then completely fucked pu by stuffing it into the wall.

Charlie Whiting may not ben an FIA steward, but I would trust his judgment far more than the clowns hired by the FIA to act as stewards.

[Shi]

I quite dislike Hamilton. Made it known since day dot. He's a right gobshite who should learn to just let his driving tell the story. He's clearly going to be a great driver.

But I think the decision last week was pure bullshit. Forget about conspiracy theories. The FIA whinge about lack of overtaking and boring racing. But whenever there is an overtake or a collision, a driver ends up penalised. What kind of bullshit is that? No wonder drivers just wait for the pit stops, if they think 'Well, if I do hit the other guy while trying to pass, I'll probably get a drive through.'

Going to the specific incident, Hamilton followed the letter of the law. He cut the chicane - after bieng forced to by Raikkonen , which appears to have been missed in all the debates - so let's him back through. He then passed Raikkonen again. Where's the problem?

Some say Hamilton had an advantage because of cutting the chicane. Bullshit. Raikkonen could easily have held Hamilton behind him going into La Source. But he got spooked by Hamilton and was passed very easily. He then completely fucked pu by stuffing it into the wall.

Charlie Whiting may not ben an FIA steward, but I would trust his judgment far more than the clowns hired by the FIA to act as stewards.

Charlie Whiting actually reversed his stance after watching the cockpit video

fact is that if Hamilton had the choice of backing off and making the corner when he chose to cut the chicane, and had he followed Raikkonen through the corner then he would not have been close enough to make the move.

I'm not saying that the punishment fits the crime, but there was definitely an offence by Hamilton, for which he needed to be punished for

following this whole drama, the rule has been clarified to no passing before the corner which follows the cut corner - we saw some of that going on in today's race (Monza)

[Alicante]

w00t

[marone]

im glad to see some partisan views are now being discussed on here. It's great to see people that may not like or follow a certain team or driver, admit that sometimes the decisions are bullshit or that a driver has done a great job despite their allegiances.

that being said, i think it tells a certain story that a new rule clarification has now been put in place because of this specific incident and that because this rule has now been clarified it makes the punishement a little bit harsh.

i wont mention the whole farce of setting an appeal/court hearing date when it was known all along that the fia was going to declare it null and void.

FIA: "You can appeal if you want"

McLaren: "we would like to appeal"

FIA: "NO APPEAL FOR YOU!!"