682 replies to this topic

[vietlol]

[MrBucket]

lol fred

[Nacho]

How much more dominant would the Brawn car have been if they'd used the KERS that Honda made for the thing?

Honda's 2009 KERS system unveiled

The stunning design shows how much money was invested by Honda before it withdrew from Formula One. Although alternatives with a flywheel were tried out, they main focus were on a battery system, albeit with the batteries housed in nosecone.

The team judged that this position could retain the packaging and optimisation of the sidepods, while batteries low in the front helped frontal weight bias. The design went as far as housing a water cooler inside the nose to cool down the battery pack.

Power from the batteries was transferred through an oil cooled motor in the left hand sidepod.

Vehicle testing commenced in April 2008 with straight course accelerations, and progressed into circuit tests at Silverstone the following month. Additional circuit tests were conducted at full load in September and showed that it could improve laptimes from 2 to 3 tenths, depending on the circuit.

The final design achieved 7.8 kW (10.46 hp) of power per kilogram, close to Honda's design goal of 8 kilowatts per kilogram. Peak motor efficiency was 99% and peak generator efficiency during regen was 93%. Motor weight was 6.9 kilograms.

http://www.f1technic...29a49b28b71cb48

[kngrsll]

wow... i would have loved to see honda win a champship though

[vietlol]

Well they would have had a crappy engine to go with that KERS

[Nacho]

Well they would have had a crappy engine to go with that KERS

I never heard the Honda engine referred to as bad. Unreliable earlier in it's lifecycle, but never weak.

IIRC, Honda generally had upper end, if not the best, motors in terms of power.

Also, the chassis wouldn't have been massively compromised (6 inches cut off the back) to fit a totally different motor, nor would the connecting bits have been modified to fit the 'wrong' engine to their existing gearbox.

[DrDickAction]

I never heard the Honda engine referred to as bad. Unreliable earlier in it's lifecycle, but never weak.

IIRC, Honda generally had upper end, if not the best, motors in terms of power.

Also, the chassis wouldn't have been massively compromised (6 inches cut off the back) to fit a totally different motor, nor would the connecting bits have been modified to fit the 'wrong' engine to their existing gearbox.

IIRC, they had one of the better V10s, but were completely caught out by the v8 freeze.

[Redliner]

Christ...Honda would've wiped the championship clean that year. C'est l' vie

[MrHahn]

No love for Kovafailin?

Germany mopped up again

[MrHahn]

I never heard the Honda engine referred to as bad. Unreliable earlier in it's lifecycle, but never weak.

IIRC, Honda generally had upper end, if not the best, motors in terms of power.

Also, the chassis wouldn't have been massively compromised (6 inches cut off the back) to fit a totally different motor, nor would the connecting bits have been modified to fit the 'wrong' engine to their existing gearbox.

Just for giggles

[Nacho]

IIRC, they had one of the better V10s, but were completely caught out by the v8 freeze.

I thought they stayed about the same for the V8 switch.

SatoInCanadaPuttingItOnAlonsodownTheStraight.gif

[vietlol]

There was a lot of talk at the end of 08 about how crap their engine was, same with renot and toybota. I think Renault was the worst that's all.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

FIA releases 2011 entry list

Red Bull Racing

1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Mark Webber

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes

3. Jenson Button
4. Lewis Hamilton

Scuderia Ferrari Marboloro

5. Fernando Alonso
6. Felipe Massa

Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team

7. Michael Schumacher
8. Nico Rosberg

Renault F1 Team

9. Robert Kubica
10. TBA

AT&T Williams

11. Rubens Barrichello
12. TBA

Force India F1 Team

14. TBA
15. TBA

Sauber F1 Team

16. Kamui Kobayashi
17. Sergio Perez

Scuderia Toro Rosso

18. TBA
19. TBA

Team Lotus

20. Jarno Trulli
21. Heikki Kovalainen

HRT F1 Team

22. TBA
23. TBA

Marussia Virgin Racing

24. TBA
25. TBA

[_R_]

1) Speaking of Honda, the one thing I really miss was their Suzuka specials... 1000+hp that lasted 1 race weekend, if that, then went up in a flame of glory...

2) ferrari dude brought up a good point, next year with the movable rear wing is going to be another year of the double diffuser conflict... everyone pointing at the fast guy saying "that's not the spirit of the rules"

[Nacho]

I wonder if anyone will make the wing stall when 'activated', making it sort of like the F-ducts of this year.

Unless the rules say the wing must DEcrease angle of attack when used....

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

I wonder if anyone will make the wing stall when 'activated', making it sort of like the F-ducts of this year.

Unless the rules say the wing must DEcrease angle of attack when used....

My guess is that it could be done, but probably not to any benefit. Stalling a wing decreases drag, but reducing AOA should have a larger effect.


Edit: Actually, stalling by increasing AOA increases drag.

[Nacho]

My guess is that it could be done, but probably not to any benefit. Stalling a wing decreases drag, but reducing AOA should have a larger effect.


Edit: Actually, stalling by increasing AOA increases drag.

As I understood it, stalling in general increases drag, but for whatever reason the F-duct's stalling decreased it.

Granted, I've not taken any aero classes in about 8 years now.

[vietlol]

I came to post the entry list too heh, so lets talk about it a bit.

Schu again in the '#1' car, because he likes odd numbers cmon guy. I thought STR confirmed both drivers a while ago? Certainly Hymen. I also heard that Timo was 100% staying with Virgin, do they just want to wait until both drivers confirmed to announce or could he be on the move?

[_R_]

I came to post the entry list too heh, so lets talk about it a bit.
Schu again in the '#1' car, because he likes odd numbers cmon guy. I thought STR confirmed both drivers a while ago? Certainly Hymen. I also heard that Timo was 100% staying with Virgin, do they just want to wait until both drivers confirmed to announce or could he be on the move?

I'm more curious to find out with chandok and senna end up...
both need a better drive...

[Nacho]

I'm more curious to find out with chandok and senna end up...
both need a better drive...

Considering how they were pretty even with each other and Klein pretty much shoved Bruno around, I'd say neither have terribly many options.

Karun's nationality isn't going to be enough to get him a seat at the now-coveted Force India with names like Hulkenberg and Sutil still unconfirmed.

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

As I understood it, stalling in general increases drag, but for whatever reason the F-duct's stalling decreased it.

Granted, I've not taken any aero classes in about 8 years now.

I think the way it works is that the air is blown onto the airfoil to force flow separation, and this is what they are referring to as 'stalling' the rear wing.

I believe on certain aircraft they do the reverse, where they bleed air out onto the upper surface to delay flow separation (hence 'reduce stall')

[AErrorist]

The way I understood it was that when the wing is stalled, the vortices that form over the wing force the air to flow up and over the wing, as opposed to into, and against the wing.

[Nacho]

I think the way it works is that the air is blown onto the airfoil to force flow separation, and this is what they are referring to as 'stalling' the rear wing.

I believe on certain aircraft they do the reverse, where they bleed air out onto the upper surface to delay flow separation (hence 'reduce stall')

Slats

http://en.wikipedia....ding_edge_slats


Looks like drag doesn't necessarily increase after stalling, but it is rather unpredictable.

At the right of the curve, the drag changes rather abruptly and the curve stops. In reality, you can set the airfoil at any angle you want. However, once the wing stalls, the flow becomes highly unsteady and the value of the drag changes rapidly with time. Because it is so hard to measure such flow conditions, engineers usually leave the plot blank beyond wing stall.

http://www.grc.nasa....ne/inclind.html

[_R_]

Considering how they were pretty even with each other and Klein pretty much shoved Bruno around, I'd say neither have terribly many options.

well you can't really compare 2 rookies in shit cars to someone's that been around forever...

[Dr. Jimmmah!]

Slats

http://en.wikipedia....ding_edge_slats


Looks like drag doesn't necessarily increase after stalling, but it is rather unpredictable.



http://www.grc.nasa....ne/inclind.html

What I was referring to was a blown system, not just slats. I recall seeing pictures of it where there were small holes on the top of the wing surface that would blow air out. Could have been a research/experimental plane wing though.

As for drag vs alpha beyond stall:

Abbot, I. H. and Von Doenhoff, A.E., "Theory of Wing Sections", Fig.139, p.234.

Even in the case where there are slotted wing sections C_L decreases beyond stall AOA, but C_D only goes up. I'm sure you could design an airfoil that would not behave in that way, but generally C_D only goes up with increased AOA.